Nelphine
Joined: Apr 01, 2011
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 Posted:
Apr 15, 2012 - 04:50 |
 
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by the way, I think if you went with something about requiring a minimum move forward as I have suggested, I would disregard the 4 turn halfs/drives; since you are forced forward constantly, you couldn't really stall, so you could just play the standard 8 turn halfs, and then if the ball DID bounce around a lot, you could see lots of scrambling by both sides, instead of the end of the half/drive artificially occurring. (As you can see, I'm heavily against modifying the lenghts of halfs/drives, and would rather modify the stalling rules to incorporate whatever you wanted to attain.) |
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the_cursed_one
Joined: Feb 18, 2010
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Apr 15, 2012 - 04:52 |
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i think khemri should be allowed there are some intresting tg skill combos i would like to try out in a league similiar to this, and sue they maybe ag1/2 but it would be for fun |
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Overhamsteren
Joined: May 27, 2006
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Apr 15, 2012 - 05:23 |
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The way I imagine the 4 turn drive is like this:
When receiving a kick you start counting the 4 turns even if you don't manage to pick up the ball.
On your 4th turn you must score, you can't activate the ballcarrier without either going to the endzone or hand off/pass to a player who has not activated yet. If you can't reach the endzone(or don't want to try rolling the dice) and can't give the ball to a player who has not yet activated you must hand off/pass the ball to the opposing player that has the best chance of catching the ball after you move as close as possible(without dodging).
If your 4th turn ends in a turnover the opponent can choose to play his next turn normally but this gives you another '4th turn' or he can stand up any prone players and end his turn then you must give him the ball(described above) as your only action.
If you drop the ball your 4 turn drive will restart if you start a turn with an opposing tackle zone on the ball or the opponent tried to pick up the ball last turn.
If you drop the ball in your 4th turn and the opponent don't try to pick up the ball or put tackle zones on it then all your players who can remove their tackle zones from the ball without dodging must do so, and you must leave a path to the ball open, you may not try to pick up the ball. After this turn you can play normally again and picking up the ball will start turn 1 of your 4 turn drive.
If the opponent gains control of the ball then that turn counts as the 1st turn of his 4 turn drive. |
_________________
Like a Tiger Defying the Laws of Gravity |
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the_Sage
Joined: Jan 13, 2011
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Apr 15, 2012 - 10:48 |
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| Nelphine wrote: |
Crowdsurfing; generally just say 'no' unless the ball carrier, or someone directly guarding the ball carrier (so sidelines players are safe, unless right in the middle of the action; what that means would need to be defined but I'd say: people in a typical cage can be surfed, people in a loose cage (if that person wasn't there, then you could get a blitz on the carrier) could be surfed, or something like that).
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Defining this correctly would help with the first part of the problem (vagueness). (athough it only defines a need for the person without the ball to surf, while currently surfing a blodger who's in the way of the ballcarrier is a typical grey area)
However, this would leave the degraded sideline dynamics, which bother me a lot (not sure whether others have felt this). Normally, putting 2 players diagonally in the side field is an ok defensive position. The offensive player can place assists there, but only at the risk of getting surfed. With the current R&P rules, assists can be placed on the sideline without risk, greatly reducing tactical sideline considerations (until someone decides the player is directly in the way of the TD, and surfs him anyway).
On the topic of me joining: What are the activity requirements for the league? I didn't see anything about how often a coach would need to play to be considered active.[/quote]
Currently, there are none. It's an open system (like ranked), with no maxmum # of teams per coach. Part of the suggested changes is to have a scheduled seasonal league system in addition to that, but this would be on a per-season opt-in basis while all other teams you have in the league remain available for casual play. So feel free to make a try-out team that's currently allowed, have a look for a few games, and then make lizards if/when they're added to the allowed race list.
| Overhamsteren wrote: |
On your 4th turn you must score, you can't activate the ballcarrier without either going to the endzone or hand off/pass to a player who has not activated yet. If you can't reach the endzone(or don't want to try rolling the dice) and can't give the ball to a player who has not yet activated you must hand off/pass the ball to the opposing player that has the best chance of catching the ball after you move as close as possible(without dodging).
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If you would introduce a rule regarding maximally 4 turn drives, I would propose that you would have to pass to a square of the opponent's choosing. However, it sounds like a very complicated mechanic to solve a problem that doesn't (yet) exist. So far, the league hasn't seen anyone trying to pseudo-stall, but I could imagine introduction of races like dwarves might indeed require tweaking of the stalling rules.
Such rules would mean that successful defense doesn't necessarily become about getting the ball off the opponent, and instead becomes more about preventing a score for a few turns. This could be a good thing or a bad, not sure.
By the way, I'm glad to see the rules discussions has roused the interest of people not yet in the league, and I welcome your contributions! |
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badgertheking
Joined: Jun 09, 2008
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Apr 15, 2012 - 11:26 |
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4 drives is an ace idea all for it.
Blocking should always be allowed imo other than last turns.. Stops arguments.
Ban Block lol. that could be fun..... make blocking risky, everyone would want wrestle.
How do I get a game???? |
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Overhamsteren
Joined: May 27, 2006
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Apr 15, 2012 - 14:20 |
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Just noticed you don't have a rule for 'no line of scrimmage blocking'? If defense puts all 3 men north and offence puts all 3 men south then no one is touching, that would save 3 blocks each drive. |
_________________
Like a Tiger Defying the Laws of Gravity |
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bghandras
Joined: Feb 06, 2011
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Apr 15, 2012 - 14:52 |
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"With no damage skills, requirement for advancing and 4 turn drives I don't really see any reason for rules about blocking, the game is already pushed far towards quick touchdowns. "
I agree. The harder the rules, the better for me. I would prefer no gray area. I have no problem with blocking and crowd surfing as long as the drive is quick, and progression is a must. |
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bghandras
Joined: Feb 06, 2011
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Apr 15, 2012 - 14:54 |
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One side note:
moving the ball 3 squares strongly discourage passing, so i dont like it. It can happen that the receivers are trying to find the proper space, while the thrower is at the backfield. 4 turn with punt would solve that too. |
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SkavenLordVinshqueek
Joined: May 01, 2005
Location: the Netherlands
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Apr 15, 2012 - 15:21 |
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To ensure people keep on playing, I find the suggestion from Igvy to make TD's worth more an excellent idea. In the open system currently used, it means the more you score, the higher your standing is. With tournaments, scores can be adjusted in just the same way, although it depends on the type of tournament used in that case... Making a half last four turns is something I, personally, wouldn't prefer, as I rather beat someone with 4-2 instead of 2-1 or 2-0.
As for the blocking. Well, I think that'll remain to be a grey area. I'd say that if a player is within reach of the endzone (but in a tacklezone, or whatever, not allowing him to score without a dice roll), you have to get that player free. Not blocking those players on the line of scrimmage that aren't within reach... *ponders*... It makes it still a bit of a grey area, but I think that blocks are generally occuring, so it would be better to just state that if someone can score, you need to ensure he will do so. |
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Borak Says - Pearls of wisdom from the Chaos Lord
"Eagles may soar high, but weasels don't get sucked into jet engines" |
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bghandras
Joined: Feb 06, 2011
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Apr 15, 2012 - 17:12 |
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I personally dont like that aproach, but that is me. As i said i hate grey areas, and would use rather really strong motivation. |
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the_Sage
Joined: Jan 13, 2011
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Apr 15, 2012 - 17:13 |
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| Overhamsteren wrote: | | Just noticed you don't have a rule for 'no line of scrimmage blocking'? If defense puts all 3 men north and offence puts all 3 men south then no one is touching, that would save 3 blocks each drive. |
I guess we could do that as well, though I think the goal isn't necessarily to minimize the # of blocks. I'm still in favor of the 'disallow damage skills and fouling and let the rest sort itself out' approach.
| badgertheking wrote: | 4 drives is an ace idea all for it.
Blocking should always be allowed imo other than last turns.. Stops arguments.
Ban Block lol. that could be fun..... make blocking risky, everyone would want wrestle.
How do I get a game???? |
Good to hear from you badger, you're still my favorite player in R&P. =)
I agree that we could keep the 'no blocking rule' for turns 8 and 16 (with the exception of OTTD attempts). You could still choose not to make any unneeded blocks before making a pretty safe TD, but that would be a friendly thing to do, and it would not be breaking the rules if you do make those blocks.
btw: the proposal was to ban block only on players who start with ST4 or higher. The problem I see with that, is that those teams will already be more handicapped in R&P than elves are. What we need is for these teams to have good incentive to play a quick advance, not more handicap.
You can get a game by seeing whether any R&P players are on
I prefer to use http://fumbbl.com/FUMBBL.php?page=group&op=view&group=6738&p=members&order=3 as you can see who's both online and close in TV at a glance, though I also have all R&P members in my buddy list.
Then just look that person up on irc or PM them, and arrange a match.
I put #rushandpass on my irc client's default channel list, so I automatically join it whenever I log on to irc. |
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Vesikannu
Joined: Mar 06, 2011
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Apr 16, 2012 - 15:27 |
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Four turn drives mean that a Riot or a bad Pitch Invasion will have a much larger effect on your available time to score. If people aren't stalling, then there's no need try to regulate it more. I'd rather see TD's be more valuable to discourage stalling, and leave it up to the coaches what kind of strategy they prefer.
I also like the relaxed limitations sage proposed to the blocking and surfing rules, and allowing the wizard inducement. Less grey area = better. |
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Hitonagashi
Joined: Apr 09, 2006
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Apr 16, 2012 - 16:01 |
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I don't intend to play this league, so please take this in the spirit it's intended. In this, I'm going to 'pretend' I'm a b***** competitor that's out to break your rules while still being sociable and exploit them to improve my chances of winning.
If I did play this league, I'd be a slow attacker..I wouldn't do a typical stall, I'd just move my cage very slowly. Barring your 4 turn suggestion, nothing I've read would stop me doing this, throwing blocks as I went. Every turn, I'd move the cage maybe 2-3 squares, flipping from side to side, saying I wanted to flank.
Back to me (out of b/tard mode), I'd love the idea of incentivising TD's...as that seems to fit the motivation for the league. You could score the cumulative total of your TD's as points if you win, with the opponents cumulative score subtracted for each you concede. In a league like this, a draw should be the same as a loss, as it's stupidly easy to get one.
For example:
1-0 win is worth 1 point
2-0 win 3 points (2 + 1)
4-0 win a mighty 10 points! (1+2+3+4).
5-4 win would be 15(my td's) - 10(his tds) points, so 5 points.
2-1 win would be 2 - 1, so 1 point.
It rather emphasises scoring lots over trying to artificially grey out what you can do on pitch. It's FAR too easy to abuse rules like "score fast", and you'll have too many games messed up trying to enforce a 4 turn limit. |
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maysrill
Joined: Dec 29, 2008
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Apr 16, 2012 - 16:06 |
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You could also award points for forward passing. Something like Passing/10 to the total score. If someone manages to pass for 30 squares net, that's another 3 points to their game score, win or lose. |
_________________
Author of Firehurler (Twinborn Trilogy #1) |
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Vesikannu
Joined: Mar 06, 2011
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Apr 16, 2012 - 17:35 |
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| Hitonagashi wrote: | For example:
1-0 win is worth 1 point
2-0 win 3 points (2 + 1)
4-0 win a mighty 10 points! (1+2+3+4).
5-4 win would be 15(my td's) - 10(his tds) points, so 5 points.
2-1 win would be 2 - 1, so 1 point.
It rather emphasises scoring lots over trying to artificially grey out what you can do on pitch. It's FAR too easy to abuse rules like "score fast", and you'll have too many games messed up trying to enforce a 4 turn limit. |
I like that. I thought about cumulative scoring too, but felt that it could get out of hand easily. Subtracting the opponent's score would limit that somewhat. What would the loser/draw gain in your model? Just 1 point per TD?
Edit: The system is pretty similar to what sage proposed in post #3 (+1 point per TD difference), but this version doesn't give a bonus for winning with just one TD, and encourages running up the score more. Hito's version might fit the feel of the league better. |
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