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Vanguard



Joined: Nov 01, 2003

Post   Posted: Nov 26, 2006 - 03:56 Reply with quote Back to top

low tr
undead / 3 str 5 guys and 1 str 6 guy is undefeatable

high tr
all reg scum mass fouling simply is too mighty if your team has regen ^^

and elfs are nice to play orcs once but if you repeat the game 5 times you have no team ^^
johan



Joined: Aug 02, 2003

Post   Posted: Nov 26, 2006 - 03:58 Reply with quote Back to top

Newbie511 wrote:

3) Score quickly. I know it sounds obvous but it's true. Every turn spent not scoring helps the orks. Orks will NOT be able to keep up in an offensive shootout.


This is usually incorrect. If you can stall succesfully against Orks, do - it's incredibly annoying. Every turn you take away from them will help you defend - while Orks can sometimes score in two turns, they feel much safer doing it in six. The Orks want their classic 2-1 Victory, and your #1 priority is not letting them have it.
Pro511



Joined: Aug 14, 2006

Post   Posted: Nov 26, 2006 - 05:39 Reply with quote Back to top

johan wrote:

This is usually incorrect. If you can stall succesfully against Orks, do -


If you can do anything succesfully against anybody, do.

If you can sucessfully outbash a chaos team with two gobos, do it.

I'll never argue against a sucessful stall. My comment that 'every turn not scoring helps orks' was meant to imply that moving down the field quickly is important. Getting bogged down against orks is trouble.

If you can 'successfully' stall, stall. Unless you're down 2-0. Very Happy
Zuul



Joined: Nov 15, 2003

Post   Posted: Nov 26, 2006 - 08:08 Reply with quote Back to top

I'm sorry to have to say this Newbie511. But saying:
Newbie511 wrote:
If you can do anything succesfully against anybody, do.

is a little like saying something to the equivalent of "Play to not lose". About as useful as something not very useful.

Anyway. To add a little to this thread. I have played as Orcs a lot, and against them almost as much. There are several strategies that work, but as has been stated it all depends on at what level you play them. At lower TR, I would go all out and suggest either Lizardmen or Skaven as your best bets. Skaven with 4 Gutter Runners are wicked fast and will score constantly. Lizardmen at low TR can both outmuscle (but not outbash) and outscore Orcs. If you aren't comfortable with these teams (and I know Lizardmen can be an issue) try using Undead. They can definitely run circles around slow Orcs as well as bashing a little.

At a higher TR I would put my money on a Dark Elf team or hope to outbash them with a better skilled Orc team. One possibility that I would recommend is rolling lots of doubles with Chaos... ^_^

Just remember, if you want to win and win bad, get Dirty Player and make sure you use it as much as is safe and as effectively as possible. Against Orcs it can win you the game. If he doesn't have it either, even better.

As the saying goes, if there ain't blood on the pitch its not good right? Just because he's Orcs and you won't be bashing him, doesn't mean you can't damage him. You just have to be selective.

One final note. Designate your "saps". These should be linemen that you use to tie up his valuable/strong players as much as possible by being targets so that the rest of your team can beat up on his weaker players.
koadah



Joined: Mar 30, 2005

Post   Posted: Nov 26, 2006 - 11:47 Reply with quote Back to top

Zuul wrote:
I'm sorry to have to say this Newbie511. But saying:
Newbie511 wrote:
If you can do anything succesfully against anybody, do.

is a little like saying something to the equivalent of "Play to not lose". About as useful as something not very useful.


That's a little unfair. Some coaches don't stall or foul
even when it is clearly the best strategy.

There's also the idea of 'taking what the defence gives you'. i.e. don't just stick to the same rigid strategy when it isn't working.

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Pro511



Joined: Aug 14, 2006

Post   Posted: Nov 26, 2006 - 17:36 Reply with quote Back to top

Zuul wrote:
I'm sorry to have to say this Newbie511. But saying:
Newbie511 wrote:
If you can do anything succesfully against anybody, do.

is a little like saying something to the equivalent of "Play to not lose". About as useful as something not very useful.


Which was my point.

Laughing
sk8bcn



Joined: Apr 13, 2004

Post   Posted: Nov 27, 2006 - 11:56 Reply with quote Back to top

My pick would be.......orks

Beat him on his own field since it's what matters to you.

Don't pick skills against elves. Start at high FF. Keep your money. Try at TR 140-150 to play him. Buy Morg.

If you loose, then he's really better than you.

Pick block on Bob, guard on everyone else, DP on linemen.


Well for the idea of picking elves and skas. Well maybe, but if it's a tournament, where are the proofs that you won't be mauled and crippled before having to play the orcs?

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erzkanzler



Joined: Dec 05, 2005

Post   Posted: Nov 27, 2006 - 12:48 Reply with quote Back to top

Well,
thanks to all participating. This thread did evolve into a very poignant orc counter strategy discussion and I appreciate your input.

I personally find the idea of practicing with and developing teams that pose somewhat of a mismatch to orcs like lizards and skaven most appealing - and going one-turner skaven, ag4 skink galore (also it would start to give me some variety of games, as I never seem able to find contestants for anything but my Welves, as long as they are on gamefinder next to my CD team). I will field a team that is developed on fumbbl to match his from TT, so I can really fiddle around with team development. Harr, harr!

If you wish to debate this further: How is one strategy likely to be even more effective than the other? As several options have been mentioned now and discussion has begun about stalling vs not stalling against orcs for example, feel free to elaborate on competing ideas. To all those playing the wuhan way: If he fails to have developed a DP, is outfouling really likely to win me the game, is it superior to outplaying him even? I assume that for a fouling game orcs themselves should be quite the threat, as they feature the most armour per movement to put the boot in, or am I wrong and AV don't matter for the adept fouler?

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Hitonagashi



Joined: Apr 09, 2006

Post   Posted: Nov 27, 2006 - 15:42 Reply with quote Back to top

Well, I play Skaven a lot, and I love them...

I'm interested in Panda's comment about not standing the rats back up again. For me, at the end of the day, while I have reserve line rats, and no particularly valuable skills, I will always tie that BoB up. More players that are tied up blocking my cannon fodder, less there are to stop me when I make my suicidal charges. My skaven tend to live fast die fast.

I agree with the RO...I dont get one till about 150-160 tr, and when I do, I keep him in the backfield, and use him as an emergency blitzer. With frenzy and prehensile tail, he can blitz into the side of the cage, and (in LRB 5 with loner) a significant chance of keeping the orc in the middle tied there. Obviously, try it earlyish in the cages movement, with tz coverage over the front for when he rolls a 1 on wild animal. If you have your linerats tying up all his high st players, he can frequently open a gap in the side of the cage to get the TZ to block the rat ogre down, allowing you the chance for a dauntless strip ball gutter runner to take the ball off his ballcarrier. If he starts carrying it with throwers not blitzers, that cage will move slowly. If you get a normal skill for a rat ogre, break tackle will allow him to get into that cage much easier. Use the storm vermin as the people to tie up the cage at the death, with block and high(er) armour, they are more likely to come out alive.

Claw is a good choice on doubles for linerats against av9, and horns is surprisingly useful on them as well. Gutterrunners I tend to take 3 of. One built for defense (horns, dauntless strip ball, block etc) another built for offense (catch, leap block etc) and the last one built for one turning. Cheesy as hell, but at the end of the day, having that one mv 9/10 sprint sure feet gr has won me more games than I can count. Especially against bashy teams, where they score on turn 8/16, and you then have the chance of using that one turner to immediately equalise their long grinding score, with you hopefully having come out of the half you recieved ahead.

What do people think about using Chaos? At 160 Tr, you can have plenty of beastmen with claw(as its a mutation on a normal roll) which will carve through his armour like butter. The chaos warriors and big guys can then really put the bash out on the rest of his team.

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Stormbringer



Joined: Aug 19, 2005

Post   Posted: Nov 27, 2006 - 16:55 Reply with quote Back to top

Well, about stalling, if you ever can stall vs. Orcs and would go into the lead or draw with the td, stall as long as you effectively can. Everything that adds to the time pressure the Orc offense has will make it easier to win or draw.

It is also very annoying to have a Kicker and kick deep, especcially with those super fast and agile Gutter Runners and Elven Catchers or Blitzers that will make the Orc coach form a cage deep and thus separate it from the line. As long as the BOBs don't have Tackle they can be bound at the LOS quite well by Blodgers. Treemen are very good at this job too with StandFirm.

A Sidestep Diving Tackle player can be annoying when placed at a side of the cage that lacks a Tackler.

Stormbringer

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sk8bcn



Joined: Apr 13, 2004

Post   Posted: Nov 29, 2006 - 10:08 Reply with quote Back to top

IMO your skavens will fail in the task of beating him, unless you play well in previous rounds.

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charlie1331



Joined: Sep 16, 2012

Post   Posted: Oct 31, 2014 - 23:35 Reply with quote Back to top

I'm struggling in this area and have read through several threads but was wondering if advice has changed since these posts or in general over the past 8 years?

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pythrr



Joined: Mar 07, 2006

Post   Posted: Nov 01, 2014 - 00:31 Reply with quote Back to top

claw

orcs have been hugely nerfed by CRP

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IndiJuno



Joined: Aug 13, 2013

Post   Posted: Nov 01, 2014 - 02:11 Reply with quote Back to top

I would say get a nurgle or chaos team, if its a league system, CPOMB your way through him. keep your guys together get lots of guard foul when you have higher numbers take out his ball carrier and target his Black Orcs with your Claws.
mrt1212



Joined: Feb 26, 2013

Post   Posted: Nov 01, 2014 - 04:35 Reply with quote Back to top

Beating orcs any place any time and the answer is play as a specific team...
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