| Poll |
| Is CLAWPOMB really a problem? |
| Yes, absolutley |
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55% |
[ 464 ] |
| No, Chaos Dwarfs Disagree |
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20% |
[ 174 ] |
| Still Haven't Decided |
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8% |
[ 75 ] |
| Pie! |
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15% |
[ 127 ] |
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| Total Votes : 840 |
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giorss
Joined: Nov 22, 2007
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 Posted:
Jan 30, 2015 - 18:36 |
 
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Maybe people Play box too seriously, so cpomb becomes apparent problem. Box is just for fun and Now that naf like tourneys start they will be more serious. Teams Play in the same format with same values. Maybe it's less romantic than a lot of skills on my cdorf vs a rookie orc but probably more competitive |
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Suppurax
Joined: Jun 09, 2007
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| Posted:
Jan 30, 2015 - 18:44 |
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Clawpomb is not an issue. Back in LRB4 we had claw+fangs, which was even deadlier. The real issue is that we don't have effective dirty players to fight clawpomber! |
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NerdBird
Joined: Apr 08, 2014
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| Posted:
Jan 30, 2015 - 18:45 |
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| JimmyFantastic wrote: | | You tell me. You are the one whining in a blog about how you can't keep your team alive in the box.. |
I don't mind facing off against one every so often but multiple games in a row? I will pass. Also, I really have no dodge since my team is young as far as skills go but that's another story.
My big problem with CPOMB is when these teams are losing they keep piling the casualties on. And when the CLAWPOMB is not working they just keep trying until the game gets out of hand and you win by a large score. You have those games where POWS are the norm, and combined with POMB you are going down without any retaliation. And when you are down a bunch of Elves the opposition is going to get loads of 3 Die blocks, so the POWS are going to come.
I don't mind playing brutal teams every few games or so but without any chance to oppose them it gets frustrating. For instance, when you play Carlo you know what you are getting into...a good time. He will laugh as much when his own die as when yours die... I get that. But he plays Khemri and Khemri have a weakness. If Carlo played a nurgle team it would not be anywhere near as fun IMO. |
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mrt1212
Joined: Feb 26, 2013
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| Posted:
Jan 30, 2015 - 19:07 |
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I feel the only overarching counter is to use that AG4, Dodge or no Dodge, Tackle or no Tackle, rerolls or no rerolls, to simply give up as few blocks per game as possible.
And Nurgle at High TV is just cruel. Regen (Attrition counter), FA (weak blocking counter), Disturbing presence (passing/handoff/ottd counter), 40k fouling fodder (deep bench counter), Tents (<ST3 AG4 dodge counter), Skill Access (Ball carrier building made easier). There's not a lot you can do to counter Nurgle when they have a bevy of skills.]
And lets be honest here, we're talking about stboub's Nurgle teams being this way  |
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Garion
Joined: Aug 19, 2009
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| Posted:
Jan 30, 2015 - 19:14 |
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| JimmyFantastic wrote: | All I meant was that if you were to reduce attrition(which you would do by nerfing PO or Claw in any way) there would be consequences. People tend to ignore this.
TCPomb certainly keeps the TV of the Elfs down, please don't act like nerfing PO or Claw wouldn't lead to less attrition.
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oh yeah, I'm all for attrition coming from other places, I'd love to see surfing be WAAAAAY more brutal (something like no apo or regen and add fame to injury roll). Also buff fouling, they would be 2 fair ways to increase and spread bash around  |
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Last edited by Garion on %b %30, %2015 - %19:%Jan; edited 1 time in total |
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mrt1212
Joined: Feb 26, 2013
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| Posted:
Jan 30, 2015 - 19:19 |
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| Garion wrote: | | JimmyFantastic wrote: | All I meant was that if you were to reduce attrition(which you would do by nerfing PO or Claw in any way) there would be consequences. People tend to ignore this.
TCPomb certainly keeps the TV of the Elfs down, please don't act like nerfing PO or Claw wouldn't lead to less attrition.
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oh yeah, I'm all for attrition coming from other places, I'd love to see surfing be WAAAAAY more brutal (something like no apo or regen and add fam to injury roll). Also buff fouling, they would be 2 fair ways to increase and spread bash around |
Only if Rotters aren't allowed to foul |
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delusional
Joined: Jan 18, 2013
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| Posted:
Jan 30, 2015 - 19:19 |
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Just going back through the fixes.
MB, largely untouched.
Claw, IMHO fixed. only effective against armor stronger then AV8. (used to be +2 to armor roll).
PO, sort of fixed. The fact that you must PO does make the player more vulnerable.
PO is killer against AV7. because you are rerolling a 15/36 chance of breaking armor (1+2+3+4+5). Now add MB, you are rerolling 21/36. Ie. 82% chance of breaking armor. That's HUGE. on a successful block, you have a 82% chance of breaking armor, then a 40% chance of taking a player out.
Claw just means that AV9 face a 47% chance of Armor breaking with PO. With ClawPOMB we get 65% chance of Armor breaking, then your 40% chance of getting taken out.
Now I haven't included the +1 from MB in the Damage roll. |
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happygrue
Joined: Oct 15, 2010
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| Posted:
Jan 30, 2015 - 19:21 |
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| JimmyFantastic wrote: | | You tell me. You are the one whining in a blog about how you can't keep your team alive in the box.. |
Calling arguments that you clearly do not agree with, and perhaps (I'm just judging from your response posts) don't even understand or didn't read "whining" is trolling plain and simple. Would you please stop calling anything you don't like a whine? If you don't like what the large majority of coaches voting and posting in this thread are saying the least you could do is not insult them. |
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Fabulander
Joined: Oct 11, 2014
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| Posted:
Jan 30, 2015 - 19:26 |
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Thanks for the feedback guys!
| koadah wrote: | Maybe you could try begging the admins to unlock your original thread.
With the much shorter description. Wink |
I did, actually. It seems like house rules that approach the subject of CPOMB are destined to end up here. It makes sense, in a way. I may be new to the site, but I have read up on some things regarding this subject, and from what I understand any ideas of actually instating house rules (more specifically Plasmoids NTBB rules) were abandoned, so really, this thread couldn't really be about anything other than house rules, right?
After further consideration, I stand by the posted rules text draft for now. One could easily remove or shorten some of the fluffy sentences, but really, as a mechanic this is no more complex than TTM or shadowing.
If a fix on fumbbl was to be instated I would prefer Plasmoids', but in a TT league I would argue for something more drastic that made more sense, even if it meant three or four extra lines of rules text.
| Harad wrote: | Well it depends on what the purpose is of the house rule but if you just find clawpomb a little too common and powerful then if you read back a few pages you can find what I think is the best and most elegant solution (I emphasise it was not my idea).
Piling on is a skill only big guys can take.
[...]
It removes nearly all the issues one might have with piling on and for a bonus makes big guys more scary and more useful as they probably should be. |
I have read the thread, but my issue isn't just that piling on is common or overpowered, but that it's a weird, unrealistically safe no-brainer to use and only really seems worth it in some kind of killstack combination. I play TT, so I'm unlikely to ever encounter the problems that fumbbl have to deal with - honestly, I have read more about CPOMB problems here than I have ever experienced myself. Of course, an obviously sub-optimal and unbalanced game mechanic should still be fixed on base principle, but that's not really my errand here. Honestly, my problem is that the current rules make no sense on several levels.
First off, Mighty Blow is the ability to throw powerful punches. It has nothing to do with body slamming. Claw is an anti-intuitive skill in itself, as many have pointed out. In a more realistic game, the way to handle heavy armour would be blunt force, not sharp edges - like the old Space Ork choppas, now there's a rule that makes sense - but even accepting the current Claws rules, they don't add to your momentum or body weight. All in all, jumping on an opponent shouldn't be a part of resolving a block, certainly shouldn't auto-activate after a punch cracked the armour in advance and most definitely shouldn't stack with punching skills.
My point: The mechanic has to be separated from the block itself.
Also, it seems absurd that the most suicidal, crazy killers, throwing themselves upon their opponents at every given chance, are also the ones who earn massive experience and build advanced skill combos, becoming the teams go-to blitzers. These psychos should be dumb brutes, madmen or just expendable kamikaze murderers. And they shouldn't live long.
My point: Piling On should work well on simpler players with fewer skills, but should not earn SPP's and should generally shorten the lifespans of the most enthusiastic body-trampoliners.
I can accept many shortcuts of logic in a rulebook, such as interceptions happening before the pass roll, but this skill just seems to have weird consequences for gameplay and team building, while not adding anything entertaining, imaginative or satisfying. How come some of the best teams in the league are also the ones who spent the most time on the ground? Get out of here... If no better solution is found I'd even stoop to simply removing the nonsense from the rulebook and then find some way to stymie those Ag4 teams afterwards. |
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JimmyFantastic
Joined: Feb 06, 2007
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| Posted:
Jan 30, 2015 - 19:29 |
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| happygrue wrote: | | JimmyFantastic wrote: | | You tell me. You are the one whining in a blog about how you can't keep your team alive in the box.. |
Calling arguments that you clearly do not agree with, and perhaps (I'm just judging from your response posts) don't even understand or didn't read "whining" is trolling plain and simple. Would you please stop calling anything you don't like a whine? If you don't like what the large majority of coaches voting and posting in this thread are saying the least you could do is not insult them. |
Sorry, you are right.
I should just ignore trolls not troll them back. |
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Pull down the veil - actively bad for the hobby! |
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PainState
Joined: Apr 04, 2007
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| Posted:
Jan 30, 2015 - 19:49 |
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Lets just say "we" did buff fouling. In fact we buff it to the same point of CPOMB. So the same odds of depitch for both.
BUT
You can only foul once per turn. CPOMB teams on the opening kick they receive get 4!!!!!
That is also ignoring that the one foul has a chance of eject and the 4 CPOMB attacks do not.
So we buff the foul to CPOMB level...we go unlimited fouls per turn.
Now that is the ticket, even a idea elfs could support. |
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bghandras
Joined: Feb 06, 2011
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| Posted:
Jan 30, 2015 - 19:51 |
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| Fabulander wrote: | | If no better solution is found I'd even stoop to simply removing the nonsense from the rulebook and then find some way to stymie those Ag4 teams afterwards. |
This!
| PainState wrote: | we go unlimited fouls per turn.
Now that is the ticket, even a idea elfs could support. |
Wow! This, too! |
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PainState
Joined: Apr 04, 2007
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| Posted:
Jan 30, 2015 - 19:53 |
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Looking back on LRB4 "we" were so naive and idealistic in those days of our youth. With the lessons learned under CRP we missed out.
Claw+Razorsharpclaws+PileOn= Total domination and OP of titanic proportions.
But in those days we were so scared of the DP, we fondled our pixels to much.
IF under LRB4 those teams who had 2 or 3 C/RSC players added PO and did it every turn. Guarded their downed killers and defended them to the max. Oh, it would of been glorious carnage of the highest order.
To bad we cannot go back in time.
Then we would of had the C/RSC/PO combo thread. |
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LucaAnt
Joined: Apr 24, 2006
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| Posted:
Jan 30, 2015 - 19:57 |
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The most useless and boring topic of CRP era! |
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PainState
Joined: Apr 04, 2007
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| Posted:
Jan 30, 2015 - 20:01 |
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| Carlo_Pellegatti wrote: | | The most useless and boring topic of CRP era! |
I disagree, sir.
Is it useless? Yes, in the sense that Christer has made it very clear that no CPOMB nerf will ever happen in R/B.
BUT
It is not useless in the sense that this thread give coaches a place to vent, scream, yell, come up with crazy ideas and just go nuts...You do not want that invading other topics on the forums, trust me.
Is it boring?
Yeah, sometimes, eventually some coach comes around and contorts us into a pretzel of logic on how his idea will totally reform Blood Bowl under CRP and restore balance in the era of CRP. Which is really funny, if you think about it. |
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Gnomes are trash
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