Harad
Joined: May 11, 2014
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 Posted:
Mar 30, 2015 - 12:42 |
 
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I think Purplechest made the point and I will try to give my take on it because whilst I think we believe the same thing I may misrepresent someone else.
When I am not too picky about the games I play in ranked they tend to be harder than the games in box.
In ranked it feels like most people are being very careful about the matches they choose and so if I am not being careful, I will tend to take on games that are unfavourable to me (either because the teams are a poor match up or the other coach is better or whatever). Because of this feeling of being picked by others it tends to make me more cautious than I would like.
In the box I get a more random distribution of games. And so whilst some are almost impossible to win (and you wouldn't accept them in ranked) there are many more that if I offered the other coach in ranked, they would reject.
So in reality, most ranked coaches become protective enough of the games that they take on that it isn't necessarily much harder but in some ways it feels easier in the box because it throws me many games which are relatively easy to win whilst in ranked I may have to give my opponent a sizeable advantage just to get a game.
Also don't confuse games that are not fun to play with games that are difficult. The box throws up some games where I know that say I will win 3 times in 4 but lose without any chance of doing anything about it, the other time (and have the team destroyed). Many people don't enjoy playing these games but it doesn't necessarily mean you can't win. |
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koadah
Joined: Mar 30, 2005
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Mar 30, 2015 - 12:46 |
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Leilond
Joined: Jan 02, 2012
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Mar 30, 2015 - 12:54 |
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The problem of the box, IN MY HONES OPINION, isn't the difficutly to win, but the lack of variety in the opponents you're going to face
When I apply to the box, I know I'm going to play a certaing game, 75% of the times.
In my honest opinion, THIS ISN'T GOOD. If I wan't some pass and rush game, I HAVE TO pick it in ranked.
"Pass and rush" is part of the game, exactly in the same the way as "bash and crash" is... but in the box you won't find an equal chance of the two game style.
I can play twice a week, more or less. What have I to do if I want to play an "agile match"? Apply two times in the box, fight a dwarf team and a CD team, being disappointed and wait for next week for another try?
I've the right to play the match I want to play, and being the box absolutely unbalanced regarding game style teams, I NEED TO PICK AN OPPONENT IN RANKED!
Picking ISN'T a problem as per se. Picking can be, like it is for me, the only chance to play, every now and then, some type of matches. I played box more than ranked in last month, but SOMETIMES, playing against Dwarf, Chaos, Khemri, Chaos Pact... become a bit BORING, than I go do ranked and look for a Skaven vs Slan match to have some VARIETY |
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koadah
Joined: Mar 30, 2005
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Mar 30, 2015 - 13:12 |
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I think that I would play the 'competitive' divisions more often if they were merged.
Currently it feels as though there is no point using a soft team in Box as trying to rebuild them would be no fun once they take a beating. Being able to drop out and 'pick' some recoveries would make it all more attractive.
As it stands all I really want is the chance to get some of my teams out of the 'competitive' divs and in to [L]eague where I might actually use them. |
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Throweck
Joined: Feb 23, 2013
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Mar 30, 2015 - 13:27 |
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Ultimately, if any changes were to be made (which they won't I don't think) then there would be something else to moan/complain/celebrate/besmirch/dread, etc. It's like the saying goes...
'You can't polish a turd, you can only roll it in glitter'
Not that I am saying R or B are turds. I like both, but you get what I mean. The underlyings are still there. Still be cpomb, picking, metagaming, minmaxing, blah blah. It might just look prettier on the outside. |
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albinv
Joined: Sep 15, 2012
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Mar 30, 2015 - 14:25 |
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Verminardo
Joined: Sep 27, 2006
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Mar 30, 2015 - 15:03 |
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| albinv wrote: | The average coach will always have a slightly lower rating in B than in R.
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Porcrastination part 2. I was intrigued by this as it's what I've certainly found with many coaches, myself among them, that the Box win % is some 5-10 points lower than ranked. So I checked some of the best coaches on Fumbbl, and guess what, they all have very similar if not identical win % in both divisions. (Except for Azure but he plays Flings in the Box.)
Way to go for the rest of us!
I still think the statement is correct for the average coach.  |
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albinv
Joined: Sep 15, 2012
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Mar 30, 2015 - 17:12 |
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Hey, you passed (probably 5-10 mins.) of working time good man!
Well done! /cheer
"I still think the statement is correct for the average coach."
Yes, its strange i STILL think so too! Somehow the argument you have given didnt change my mind at all you know, quite the opposite actually. *shakes head* Im so dull really...
Harads post may have explained a bit where PG was coming from. It still doesnt make sense on a large scale. Or is highly theoritically.
If the majority of top coaches would be so non picky that they dont even play in box so to avoid those matches that would be in their favour, but instead rather pick the most challenging matches in R - we wouldnt have the god damn problem we are speaking about. That ends it right there. Im sorry people - but what the heck are you talking about? 
I know im not as cool as PG or Grue, so im really sorry to be in this position and having to say/ resist - this doesnt make much sense at all.
It seems more plausible - just as i said - this notion indeed (and quite obviously) comes from a top rank/ elitists bb coach point of view, whose great skills actually allow him to counter R's problem by even making it the most unpicky and challenging division for him. Obviously and naturally thats the expception from the rule though. Only exceptional skills would allow one to do so in the first place - so its not a suitable measure for a large scale anyway. And even with the high amount of top coaches on fumbbl we still have the R picking problem.
So once again, im sorry people - but what the heck are you talking about?
Certainly - and quite obviously- i didnt want to offend PG or Grue at all - and from what i can read i didnt do so at all. I respect both and wouldnt want fumbbl to be without them. Yeah but that particular point didnt make much sense. And i frankly said so.
Koadah managed to make me so mad once again (the hypocrisy....!) - im not sure if i should post again. 
And as others said anyway...the problems are within the rules and all of this wont change, so we gotta suck it up.
I cant have it though if people start to pretend were living in wonderland instead but in the same sentence discrediting one division in favour for the other! Thats when our secret agreement that we have to live with what it is and call it fine has been broken and bypassed already anyway! It then shows it isnt all as fine as we official say while still pretending so. Why otherwise the need to spread negativity about the lesser preferred division? Why?
Because what we have forbidden ourselves to speak about and suppressed for good reasons - still has to find its way and break out in (a bad way) then it seems to me. It takes a one sided route of hypocrisy then which is much worse to swallow i think than a hefty but straight forward and positively motivated rant. |
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albinv
Joined: Sep 15, 2012
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Mar 30, 2015 - 17:27 |
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@Leilond
"Being "fine with it" has nothing to do with being HAPPY with it."
Aye. That makes a fine but meaningful difference. Thanks for pointing out - i indeed failed to notice, probably due to my sophisticated oxford english. |
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Kam
Joined: Nov 06, 2012
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Mar 30, 2015 - 17:28 |
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I think he was just trying to say that his cdorfs for instance may be paired with flings in the Box, but wouldn't dare offer such a game in Ranked... |
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Azure
Joined: Jan 30, 2007
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Mar 30, 2015 - 17:35 |
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All I can say is that I should pick more. My team did not make the cut for the UI because the TV was too low.
So, are my elves pickers? Dollhouse |
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Verminardo
Joined: Sep 27, 2006
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Mar 30, 2015 - 17:38 |
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@ albinv: It's no big mystery really. The better you are, the less you benefit from picking. S'all. |
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koadah
Joined: Mar 30, 2005
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Mar 30, 2015 - 17:38 |
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| albinv wrote: |
Koadah managed to make me so mad once again (the hypocrisy....!) - im not sure if i should post again. *twisted* |
How did I make you so mad?
I gave one reason why top coaches might think that Box was easier.
this was after you said
| Quote: | | Makes no sense at all. |
Really, it is perfect sense.
If I am challenged by a top coach a little 'inducement' by might encourage me to take the match. So, I would have a better chance of winning (and the top coach of losing) than in the Box.
I don't think that anyone is denying that Box results are likely to be worse for an average coach.
Where was the "hypocrisy"? |
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albinv
Joined: Sep 15, 2012
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Mar 30, 2015 - 17:47 |
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@kam
"I think he was just trying to say that his cdorfs for instance may be paired with flings in the Box, but wouldn't dare offer such a game in Ranked..."
You know, i was halfway expecting something like that. Why doesnt someone tell me though! To have a laugh at old albinv, ok fair enough and i get that. But one could have saved us from taking my entire ramblings at least.
You know, i once learnt that i did offer sexual intercourse to one coach here on several occasions without my knowledge. Fortunately one day he was finally kind or terrified enough to tell me so!
I never did offer sexual intercourse to him again (not with my knowledge at least...but seriously i think it didnt happen again) so im clearly able to learn tho it doesnt seem like it sometimes. |
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Leilond
Joined: Jan 02, 2012
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Mar 30, 2015 - 17:49 |
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| albinv wrote: | @Leilond
"Being "fine with it" has nothing to do with being HAPPY with it."
Aye. That makes a fine but meaningful difference. Thanks for pointing out - i indeed failed to notice, probably due to my sophisticated oxford english. |
Hehehe... I don't know if it's your "sophisticated" english, or my damn "latin english"... eheheh
Sorry mate |
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