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Smeat



Joined: Nov 19, 2006

Post   Posted: Mar 31, 2015 - 19:29 Reply with quote Back to top

DrDiscoStu wrote:
But I am curious for opinions from a wider perspective... at a certain point you have to think, each skill means the next one is further away. Surely a time comes where it isn't worth the TV, so grab a new one?
...
Does anyone do this? Should I fire my troll?

It's not that it isn't worth the TV (with some possible exceptions), it's that the doubles makes the player worth SO much more.

~IF~ a doubles is so valuable that it makes/breaks the BG, then yes. The time to do it would be once the rest of the team is developed enough so that they can support the BG while he's a rookie, to help skill him up while he's not able to help himself or the team as much.

BG's that could easily fall into this category that jump immediately to mind might include The Beast, Chaos Mino, Krox (as "big guy #7" he's more easily re-started), any Right-Stuff Throwers on a team that enjoys that team-strategy, and quite easily any 6th Ogre on an Ogre team (and an Ag 2 non-loner is "easy" to skill).

And any BG who gets gimped, even if "only" -MA.

While any BG profits considerably from doubles, most of the others seem too useful to the team to lose and re-start once skilled a bit (tho' I'm sure I'm missing someone, and/or there are arguments why "just 1 doubles" makes someone else vastly superior to those without.)


If you're going to do this, 6 or 16 spp would be the make/break point, just like a Skink (and 16 only if you can't afford 6), as you can get 2 new rolls on a new guy as fast as you can get to the 3rd roll.

C3I2 wrote:
You selected thick skull?

If he's smart/good enough not to want to blitz with him (and given the L rules), what would be better?

Break Tackle would be the only possible alternative, but there are 2 +Ag BOB's on the team to cover that far more reliably, so TS is right up there as one of the 2 strongest of the sucky skills remaining.

And probably what sparked the OP to post this thread.

(Also quite possible there's some predictable Claw on the horizon - this is L, so he might well know what's coming.)

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PainState



Joined: Apr 04, 2007

Post   Posted: Mar 31, 2015 - 22:37 Reply with quote Back to top

Now lets step back for a second.

Are we seriously having a debate that a big guy who makes it to legend is not worth the TV if lets say he had 6 normal skill ups at 120TV

compared to a big guy who had 2 doubles at 140 TV?


The threshold of keep or fire is based on 20TV bloat?

Serious?

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PurpleChest



Joined: Oct 25, 2003

Post   Posted: Mar 31, 2015 - 23:30
FUMBBL Staff
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no, it'd based on utility for the tv.

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Roland



Joined: May 12, 2004

Post   Posted: Mar 31, 2015 - 23:52 Reply with quote Back to top

Don't retire, he's a good player.
DrDiscoStu



Joined: Feb 20, 2006

Post   Posted: Apr 01, 2015 - 00:37 Reply with quote Back to top

Some great points here, thanks everyone.

Paint state you have missed the point, it isn't 20tv bloat, without block they aren't useful. Add dodge, tackle, or my favourite pro, they area higher TV but far more useful.

Also to everyone assessing 11 players. I used to have 13 including a gobbo, after the gobbo died i kept it as 12. 2 players got killed last game and I was playing tv1600 slann, hence why I only bought the blitzer back. I will get another Lineorc as soon as I need it. Think I will drop a reroll too.

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Roland



Joined: May 12, 2004

Post   Posted: Apr 01, 2015 - 00:41 Reply with quote Back to top

oh yes, 3 RR is enough for orcs

EDIT: and I would consider hiring a few more linos. It's never bad to have a little bench. Also, that could spare a BoB or two from fodder duty.


Last edited by Roland on Apr 01, 2015 - 01:06; edited 1 time in total
Dominik



Joined: Oct 29, 2004

Post   Posted: Apr 01, 2015 - 00:47 Reply with quote Back to top

Badoek wrote:
Piling On requires another Really Stupid roll before he's useful again.

You mean to build up a tackle zone in the next turn to recover from the piling on?
Smeat



Joined: Nov 19, 2006

Post   Posted: Apr 01, 2015 - 01:58 Reply with quote Back to top

Essentially, yes. Rather than knock someone down and stand there being large, he volunteers to be absent for a turn and then needs another RS roll next turn to stand up to re-appear on the field - one more chance to fail.

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lemf



Joined: Jul 17, 2005

Post   Posted: Apr 01, 2015 - 01:58 Reply with quote Back to top

Pffffffttt
Smeat



Joined: Nov 19, 2006

Post   Posted: Apr 01, 2015 - 02:00 Reply with quote Back to top

lemf wrote:
Pffffffttt

... said a coach with a 36% win:loss record.

It's not about the raw number of skills, it's about what those skills can do for the team. And then those vs. what a doubles could do.

There was a time when I would have blanched at the thought of retiring a healthy BG with hard-won skills, but once you understand how to skill up an Ag 1 Loner (it can be done, if things go right), then it's not that daunting.

And one doubles will more than make up for that in the speed they then gain future spp, and how they help the rest of the team win, gain spp and stay healthier!

PurpleChest wrote:
no, it'd based on utility for the tv.

Thx for explaining the obvious. Probably with more patience than I would have had.

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DrDiscoStu



Joined: Feb 20, 2006

Post   Posted: Apr 01, 2015 - 05:07 Reply with quote Back to top

3 RR's is enough, but I was without a thrower for nearly all of the sides existence, and with block-less BOB's, 4 was great.

I have a low TV nurgle side next, but afterwards I have a nurgle CPOMB side and a high TV khemri, so I am thinking hold the troll until after that run.

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pythrr



Joined: Mar 07, 2006

Post   Posted: Apr 01, 2015 - 06:47 Reply with quote Back to top

Smeat wrote:
lemf wrote:
Pffffffttt

... said a coach with a 36% win:loss record.



Smeat, teasing Lemf about his record (which he cares nothing about) is both pointless and lame. And makes you look as if you are taunting a disabled child. Stay classy, sir.

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Antithesisoftime



Joined: Aug 20, 2014

Post   Posted: Apr 01, 2015 - 09:52 Reply with quote Back to top

To be honest, If I'm trying to min-max a BG into certain skills, I'll retire him by the 3rd roll if no doubles. By then, the rest of my team can support retraining a new BG, and I haven't built him up so far that it would severely weaken my team.

If I go past 3 skills, I'm usually invested enough in the player to keep him regardless of the rolls, replacing him only if he dies or takes a -ST, a couple -AVs, or a couple -MAs
easilyamused



Joined: Jun 06, 2008

Post   Posted: Apr 01, 2015 - 12:13 Reply with quote Back to top

Smeat wrote:
... said a coach with a 36% win:loss record.


Oh the irony.....

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Smeat



Joined: Nov 19, 2006

Post   Posted: Apr 01, 2015 - 21:28 Reply with quote Back to top

Oh, the math-challenged.

I sucked as hard as most when I was new - easily in the 30% range (and lower to start). But I didn't "pffft" at the opining of other coaches - I asked (often "stupid") questions, I listened, I learned.

I'm now @ ~50% for over 500 games. Do the math (unless that's beyond you). Laughing

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Last edited by Smeat on Apr 01, 2015 - 21:31; edited 1 time in total
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