DrDiscoStu
Joined: Feb 20, 2006
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Apr 30, 2016 - 11:31 |
 
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Wreckage
Joined: Aug 15, 2004
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Apr 30, 2016 - 11:57 |
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| DrDiscoStu wrote: | | Well yeah, there should be a benefit to good team building, just like there is a benefit to good coaching |
This is completely hypothetical. It can be by no means bad to track a teams progression by an accurate mathematical code for whatever reason. In fact if it could be done, there is no reason why a coach shouldn't know about it.
If it could be done however, one could think about other design choices. But as long as it can't be done it's a clear objective.
I have sometimes thought about what it would take to build such a game. It couldn't be designed based on trial and error. But if dynamics were planned through probability wise on a mechanical level, who knows perhaps.
But how do you value things like a player loss compared to a ball play?
Can they even be weighted mathematically? Yes, when the goal is winning every game, I think so. But the formula to do that would have to be incredibly complicated and then still run risk to not account for everything.
Even the presumption is biased since you don't necessarily always have to try to win every game.
| JellyBelly wrote: |
I certainly don't think TV should be used to compensate for injuries. Otherwise, what is the point of them? |
As for accounting for stat losses, I don't think it's unconstructive in terms of good team management because a) there is an unintended and an intended way team difference. The intended way is the team difference based on TV, the unintended way is the team difference based on not on TV. Lowering the TV of the team based on injuries would reflect on an existing difference and simply describe accurately that one team is weaker than other.
b) Injuries aren't really controllable aspects of the game. The only 'efficiency' answer to give in terms of accounting for an injury is to cut the player. This is rather easy to see and it doesn't require a whole lot of skill for a coach to see it. It also makes injuries somewhat pointless since they most of the time will either be equal to a players death or completely irrelevant.
If on the other hand stat losses would have a beneficial effect, choosing the right player to stay would not only reflect on good team building, there could be even an advantage in keeping such a damaged player over a healthy player. Which I suppose was the reason why the BBRC abandoned that possibility.
Team building wise this would add depth to the game, so be a good thing. |
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plasmoid
Joined: Nov 03, 2009
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Apr 30, 2016 - 12:11 |
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Yup - it was an explicit decision by the BBRC to not discount for statlosses, in order to cause attrition and encourage team management.
I used to play in a league that gave TV reduction for stat losses. A lot of coaches did their best to acquire 3 stat-busted dummies for the LOS. |
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DarthPhysicist
Joined: Jun 14, 2015
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Apr 30, 2016 - 14:25 |
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I dislike aging from a fluff perspective (as well as the mechanic, but I can live with it as just a rule definition that I must abide by).
Its Blood Bowl! What would the realistic life expectancy be in a world like Warhammer? These guys are facing death at 35 tops. How could they possibly ever get so old that they need to retire? Death and injury should be the only method of retirement! What pansy Ork is going to go to the old retirement village down in Florkida and put on white shoes, playing Mahjong on the weekend... PFFT! |
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Using derivative humor since 2005.
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Matthueycamo
Joined: May 16, 2014
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Apr 30, 2016 - 14:47 |
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Wreckage I think that depends on the enviroment. League any injury is negative rather than pointless because you don't pick your opponent or have TV based match making. Whether you keep or fire your team is worse off. Even -AG has slight negatives, I have faied a dodge with a 1AG dwarf that he would have made with 2 AG before. In league that trade off is there with developed players because you may get rid of the -AG but you also may lose 2-3 skills when your opponents TV is not dependant on yours. Not a great negative on a Dwarf Blocker but it is still there.
It is TV match making and picking that can make different injuries mostly pointless. And these are two game modes I feel the game was least intended for anyway. With a focus on tournaments, one off games and league the areas it was. I mean for a start when then they made Blood Bowl could they have imagined playing hundreds of games online in TV match making or picking enviroments? I don't think so. Is there even a point in doing so? This is first and foremost a table top game, those two offenders are just never going to happen on the table top. I think people that play online have to realise that and accept that. They are second class citizens and they always will be when sticking to official rules. And I would even go as far as saying they should be. |
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DarthPhysicist
Joined: Jun 14, 2015
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Apr 30, 2016 - 14:52 |
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| Matthueycamo wrote: | | This is first and foremost a table top game, those two offenders are just never going to happen on the table top. |
I am very interested in any changes that are made to the table top version with its release next year. I think your point will either be strengthened or weakened depending on if GW determines that it wants to incorporate more of a modern online attitude, or leave it pure. |
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Wreckage
Joined: Aug 15, 2004
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Apr 30, 2016 - 15:11 |
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| Matthueycamo wrote: | | Wreckage I think that depends on the enviroment. League any injury is negative rather than pointless because you don't pick your opponent or have TV based match making. |
I'm sorry, I think that is a misconception that is a result of poor team building skills.
| Matthueycamo wrote: |
It is TV match making and picking that can make different injuries mostly pointless. And these are two game modes I feel the game was least intended for anyway. |
Since we talk about feelings: It certainly wasn't intended to be played in round robin because clearly that is one of the worst environments to play BB in. The whole structure breaks down as soon as one coach dodges a game. And if you wait for him to finish it can halt the league indefinably. Such issues exist in no other game I could think of. |
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JellyBelly
Joined: Jul 08, 2009
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Apr 30, 2016 - 16:27 |
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Another thing I would really like to see in BB is some aspect of randomness with selection of mutations (although, I'm not sure how it would best be done). It seems to me the concept of mutations should be inherently random and chaotic - there are far too many 'designer mutoids' running around!
Perhaps they could be removed from the 'skill-up' mechanic entirely and given a different mechanic? I'd like to see less cpomb spam on Chaos teams and Chaos coaches having to actually use some creativity to manage more randomly-assigned mutations. |
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DarthPhysicist
Joined: Jun 14, 2015
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Apr 30, 2016 - 16:39 |
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| JellyBelly wrote: | Another thing I would really like to see in BB is some aspect of randomness with selection of mutations (although, I'm not sure how it would best be done). It seems to me the concept of mutations should be inherently random and chaotic - there are far too many 'designer mutoids' running around!
Perhaps they could be removed from the 'skill-up' mechanic entirely and given a different mechanic? I'd like to see less cpomb spam on Chaos teams and Chaos coaches having to actually use some creativity to manage more randomly-assigned mutations. |
While I don't begrudge claw (I like to play AV 7 so for me, claw on everyone is just bloat), I do like this idea from a fluff perspective. It would severely cramp Chaos, Nurgle and Underworld (who let's face it has enough going against them to nerf their one good thing) and have a massive effect on their leveling promise though. Maybe if when you leveled up, you were given the choice of a randomly determined mutation, or taking a regular skill, and on doubles, you could pick your mutation?
Like I said though, this is purely fluff for me and I don't think its really necessary. |
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Nextflux
Joined: Jan 22, 2008
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Apr 30, 2016 - 16:47 |
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| DarthPhysicist wrote: | Maybe if when you leveled up, you were given the choice of a randomly determined mutation, or taking a regular skill, and on doubles, you could pick your mutation?
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+1 (would give it +2 if I could) |
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JellyBelly
Joined: Jul 08, 2009
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Apr 30, 2016 - 17:57 |
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@DarthPhysicist: yes, it would be a serious nerf to the Chaos teams. Perhaps the mutations could all be buffed to compensate? Also, perhaps Chaos/Nurgle/UW could have more control than the others, just not 'designer' .. either that, or they get mutations more frequently. I think there are many possible ways it could be done, question is which would work best?  |
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"Opinions are like arseholes, everybody's got them and they all stink." - The protagonist, Fallout 2
"Go for the eyes, Boo! Go for the eyes!!" |
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dode74
Joined: Aug 14, 2009
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Apr 30, 2016 - 17:58 |
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| Wreckage wrote: | | Since we talk about feelings: It certainly wasn't intended to be played in round robin |
I'm sure you're making a point about using feelings to formulate arguments, but it was intended to be played round robin as one option. From LRB6 page 31:
a League Commissioner can decide to run the regular season as a league with scheduled matches (like the FA Football League in England and Wales). Teams score points depending on how well they do in matches (typically 3 for a win, 1 for a draw and 0 for a loss, though 5 for a win, 3 for a draw, and 1 for a loss is a popular alternative).
TV matching is not mentioned in the rulebook at all, and has been regularly stated as not how the game was designed to be played by Galak. Refusing to play teams (picking) is intended, and there is a mechanism in there to prevent abuse of this. Christer has explained before why he's not implemented it here. |
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dode74
Joined: Aug 14, 2009
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Apr 30, 2016 - 18:00 |
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| JellyBelly wrote: | | @DarthPhysicist: yes, it would be a serious nerf to the Chaos teams. Perhaps the mutations could all be buffed to compensate? Also, perhaps Chaos/Nurgle/UW could have more control than the others, just not 'designer' .. either that, or they get mutations more frequently. I think there are many possible ways it could be done, question is which would work best? |
I think it'd be a short term league nerf as progress in leagues is partly alongside team age, but would make little difference in TV-matched MM (or exceptionally long leagues) where you could simply recycle undesirable mutations. Is short term leagues where the issue lies? |
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pythrr
Joined: Mar 07, 2006
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Apr 30, 2016 - 19:33 |
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| DarthPhysicist wrote: | | JellyBelly wrote: | Another thing I would really like to see in BB is some aspect of randomness with selection of mutations (although, I'm not sure how it would best be done). It seems to me the concept of mutations should be inherently random and chaotic - there are far too many 'designer mutoids' running around!
Perhaps they could be removed from the 'skill-up' mechanic entirely and given a different mechanic? I'd like to see less cpomb spam on Chaos teams and Chaos coaches having to actually use some creativity to manage more randomly-assigned mutations. |
While I don't begrudge claw (I like to play AV 7 so for me, claw on everyone is just bloat), I do like this idea from a fluff perspective. It would severely cramp Chaos, Nurgle and Underworld (who let's face it has enough going against them to nerf their one good thing) and have a massive effect on their leveling promise though. Maybe if when you leveled up, you were given the choice of a randomly determined mutation, or taking a regular skill, and on doubles, you could pick your mutation?
Like I said though, this is purely fluff for me and I don't think its really necessary. |
as is said, ALL SKILL UPS should be random. embrace the CHAOS> |
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DarthPhysicist
Joined: Jun 14, 2015
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Apr 30, 2016 - 19:39 |
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| pythrr wrote: |
as is said, ALL SKILL UPS should be random. embrace the CHAOS> |
I get thick skull, I kill jack. |
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Gnomes are trash
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