FUMBBL :: Online Blood Bowl League

Catalyst32

Joined: Jul 14, 2008

Posted: May 03, 2016 - 16:02

Endzone wrote:

Pro is unreliable and if an action is really important you would want to use a team reroll on it. Pro is therefore most use for non-critical dice rolls like dauntless, hypnotic gaze, jump up, rerolled pushbacks etc. It is also attractive to for players with neg-traits to pro reroll those ones, especially as these players tend to also have loner so the use of team rerolls here is unattractive. What this all means then is that whilst pro potentially has a very wide application its use with best play / team building is far more limited and situational. For these reasons it is not a core skill, although with certain players and certain builds it has it's place. Vampires, for example, who have to roll for both blood lust and hypnotic gaze are particularly strong candidates for pro to the extent that it could be considered a core skill for them alongside Block / wrestle and dodge.

You are looking at the skill BACKWARDS.
Of course if the roll means TURNOVER on the 1st action of the turn AND that would leave your team in the lurch AND you actually HAVE a TEAM REROLL... then you use the Team Reroll. Nobody suggests otherwise.

THE POINT IS... you do not always HAVE another TEAM REROLL because most teams don't have 8 of them to use.

THE POINT IS... you do not always want to USE a Team Reroll even if the result equals a Turnover because either your team is in a good position... OR such a bad position it doesn't matter... OR this may be the LAST ACTION of your turn and it may not be worth using a Reroll just to make 1 more Block or 1 more GFI.

THE POINT IS... sometimes to win the game OR to tip the momentum of the game in your favor you might need to Pick Up, Dodge, Dodge, GFI, GFI, Hand Off, Dodge, Pass, Catch, Dodge, GFI, GFI AND you might not be playing ELVES with AG4 and easy Access to Dodge, Catch, Sure Feet, etc.

THE POINT IS... when you do need to roll that much dice because you aren't playing Chaos Something or Other and you are down 6 players most of the game it can be useful to have 1 more guy you can 1/2 way count on.

THE POINT IS... having ANY SKILL is all about USING IT PROPERLY and that applies to Pro as much as it does to Strip Ball, Sure Hands, Diving Tackle, etc.

THE POINT IS... you USE the guy with this skill later in your turn than others... so that you STILL have a 50-50 shot at a Reroll AFTER the team Reroll is gone.

THE POINT IS... on certain teams you cannot always have a guy available with Sure Hands, Pass and Sure Feet when you need to Pick Up, GFI twice and Pass... but you can get a guy with 1/2 of each of those skills. And you cannot always have a guy waiting to with Catch and Dodge and Sure Feet waiting on the other end of that Pass... but you can have a guy with 1/2 of all 3 of those skills.
OR... you could have 1 more guy with some other skill that is USELESS in this situation you took because having 1/2 of ALL Reroll Skills to be used was too unreliable.

But you guys can keep looking at the skill backwards.
Odds are most of you play Elves or Heavy Bash or Low AG teams mainly.
Elves have blanket access to better skills with FULL Rerolls.
Heavy Bash has better access to a full frontal attrition game and access to all the skills they could want to play that way.
Low AG teams wouldn't benefit very much to skills that mainly Reroll Agility rolls because most of their players are so low on AG they try to never use them for anything involving an AG roll.

But Pro is damn useful when used correctly despite some unreliability.
And it isn't the only unreliable skill... Diving Tackle doesn't take down every player Dodging away from it.
Mighty Blow is unreliable... you can't control those CAS dice.
Dirty Player is unreliable.
Any Reroll Skill is unreliable due to SNAKES and SKULLS.
I think Tackle MIGHT be the only skill that works 100% of the time... and it is fairly situational if you aren't facing Elves or Stunties.

the_Sage

Joined: Jan 13, 2011

Posted: May 03, 2016 - 16:24

Catalyst32 wrote:

But you guys can keep looking at the skill backwards.
Odds are most of you play Elves or Heavy Bash or Low AG teams mainly.
Elves have blanket access to better skills with FULL Rerolls.
Heavy Bash has better access to a full frontal attrition game and access to all the skills they could want to play that way.
Low AG teams wouldn't benefit very much to skills that mainly Reroll Agility rolls because most of their players are so low on AG they try to never use them for anything involving an AG roll.

So... you'd take it on humans? Wink

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licker

Joined: Jul 10, 2009

Posted: May 03, 2016 - 18:31

the_Sage wrote:

Catalyst32 wrote:

But you guys can keep looking at the skill backwards.
Odds are most of you play Elves or Heavy Bash or Low AG teams mainly.
Elves have blanket access to better skills with FULL Rerolls.
Heavy Bash has better access to a full frontal attrition game and access to all the skills they could want to play that way.
Low AG teams wouldn't benefit very much to skills that mainly Reroll Agility rolls because most of their players are so low on AG they try to never use them for anything involving an AG roll.

So... you'd take it on humans? Wink

Well the argument seems to be that since other teams have better skills they don't need pro.

But the counter is, if you just take those better skills on your players on whatever team it is he's talking about, you don't need pro either!

Win win to me.

Wuhan

Joined: Aug 02, 2003

Posted: May 03, 2016 - 20:10

Pro makes something good, better.

Pro Really shines when you have a skilled player, such as a Dark elf Assassin with (shadowing), Jump up, dodge, take Pro as their 3rd skill.

It can work on the Shadowing, the Jump up, or the Dodge when they have tackle. (It works best on things when failure is not a turn over.)

You take that semi silly player, such as the above assassin, or a big guy, like an ogre. And do things you wouldn't normally do with them, such as dodge for a blitz.

Pro is also great at making your opponents lose their cool as they flip out in frustration cause you have Pro on all your vamps.

To really see the value of pro, make any elf team with 0 RR and have all the line elfs get pro as first skill. Sure you will recognize block is superior, followed closely by dodge, but pro is a strong 3rd.

FRSHMN

Joined: Feb 25, 2013

Posted: May 03, 2016 - 21:08

Opinion stock wrote:

THE POINT IS...

Another opinion stock wrote:

garbage

Pro isn't the first skill to go, but it definitely has it's value.

Both of you are right although both of you are getting too emotional to recognize you are talking past each other.

Stop it!

Wink

Dominik

Joined: Oct 29, 2004

Posted: May 03, 2016 - 22:01

To not bite your thrall outweighs the benefit of having one Mighty Blow available to blitz with in every turn once.

DarthPhysicist

Joined: Jun 14, 2015

Posted: May 03, 2016 - 23:45

I can always think of a better skill than pro. I'd take pass block first.

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Mossbeard

Joined: Jul 03, 2005

Posted: May 04, 2016 - 00:30

No offense DarthPhysicist, but Pass Block is a worse choice then Pro on almost any player.

Pro it is not that great of a skill, not really sure where the idea that it is a great skill came from. As has already been stated multiple times in this thread Pro has it's place but it is not a powerful skill.

Pro is great on Big Guys, Vampires, Killers and to a lesser extent players with Dauntless, Frenzy, Shadowing and/or Jump Up. Could also be a good choice as a Superstar/Legend skill for a player who already has all the skills they need.

I had a Block, Pro Mino who was gold, I might even take Pro before block on a Mino again. Juggs is a decent stand in for Block and Pro is great for Wild Animal with almost half as many failed blitzes and re-rolling blocks and the occasional GFI.

Wuhan

Joined: Aug 02, 2003

Posted: May 04, 2016 - 07:46

Pro on your Claw/PO/MB Mino.

Just when you blitz and roll skull/both down, (PRO), Piling on used, their best player is CAS.

Only thing more demoralizing is getting Out-Cas'd and beaten by halflings.

Catalyst32

Joined: Jul 14, 2008

Posted: May 04, 2016 - 15:36

the_Sage wrote:

Catalyst32 wrote:

But you guys can keep looking at the skill backwards.
Odds are most of you play Elves or Heavy Bash or Low AG teams mainly.
Elves have blanket access to better skills with FULL Rerolls.
Heavy Bash has better access to a full frontal attrition game and access to all the skills they could want to play that way.
Low AG teams wouldn't benefit very much to skills that mainly Reroll Agility rolls because most of their players are so low on AG they try to never use them for anything involving an AG roll.

So... you'd take it on humans? Wink

I haven't yet actually but I would in the right circumstance. Humans have access to the main Reroll Skills and I usually use 2 Throwers and 1 to 3 Catchers. Those guys plus an Ogre and 4 Blitzers keep my Lineman mainly on the LOS and not living long. But I DO have 1 current Lineman that might pick it up if his next skill is not a STAT or a DOUBLES.

I would take it on the following Lineman under the right circumstances: Human, Norse, Orc, about 1/2 of all Slann Linemen and if they lived long enough and I had covered other bases Skaven, Thralls and Hobgoblins.

I would take it on about 1/2 of my Vampires.
I would take it on Wardancers, Werewolves, Berserkers and Dedicated Leaping Sackers.

I would consider it on an AG3 Dedicated Runner that doesn't have easy access to AG or ST or M skills, has not rolled Doubles. If would conisder it for the aspects of Pro having 1/2 Dodge, 1/2 Sure Feet, 1/2 Catch, 1/2 Pass, etc. But I would take it after Block, Fend, Sure Hands (if he doesn't start with it). MAYBE after Dauntless if I played in a League with lots of ST4 teams OR after Tackle if I played in a League with lots of Elves/Stunties etc.