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The_Wogans



Joined: Aug 11, 2015

Post   Posted: May 25, 2016 - 14:59 Reply with quote Back to top

Not sure if this has been suggested in the past but I thought of an interesting rule change for how much MVPs are worth.

Standard would be, say, 3-4spp but with potential to earn more through 'team achievements'. Fluff would be the crowd rewarding the team for putting on a good match to watch.

For example:

Score more than 3TDs = add 1spp to MVP award
Keep a clean sheet (don't concede a TD) = add 1spp to MVP award
Fatality = add 1spp to MVP award for every opponent killed

Could be a mechanism for rewarding what the crowds want to see (lots of TDs, lots of deaths) rather than best tactics to win the game... everyone knows the crowd would prefer to see a 4-3 match rather than 1-0 where one side stalled for a full half.
Kryten



Joined: Sep 02, 2003

Post   Posted: May 25, 2016 - 16:47
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The thing is, Wogans, that's basically a bad idea. The MVP award is a game mechanic that helps slow skilling players to get a couple skills instead of languishing at rookie status. Changing the MVP to pile more spp on players who are already getting loads of spp screws the slow skilling players.
The_Wogans



Joined: Aug 11, 2015

Post   Posted: May 25, 2016 - 18:09 Reply with quote Back to top

Assigning the MVP would still be random so that wouldn't be too much of a problem (unless the guy who scores the 3TDs also gets the MVP, but that's always been an issue). It would mean high scoring teams would skill up even faster, though.

Edit: I guess the idea draws from Rugby Union points scoring in tournaments.


4 points for a win.
2 points for a draw.
1 "bonus" point for scoring 4 tries (or more).
1 "bonus" point for losing by 7 points (or fewer).

No team can get more than 5 points in a match
Kryten



Joined: Sep 02, 2003

Post   Posted: May 25, 2016 - 18:35
FUMBBL Staff
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It seems that your plan is to reward the winning teams with more spp than they get today, and to take those from the losing team. This kind of plan is okay for league standings and tournament results, but I think it's wrong to hook the MVP spp reward to this sort of measure.
mrt1212



Joined: Feb 26, 2013

Post   Posted: May 25, 2016 - 18:42 Reply with quote Back to top

I wake up to this nonsense? Back to bed.
thoralf



Joined: Mar 06, 2008

Post   Posted: May 25, 2016 - 19:18 Reply with quote Back to top

I thought MVPs made no sense until Lorebass won two in the first three games of the Raging Rougeaus.
garyt1



Joined: Mar 12, 2011

Post   Posted: May 25, 2016 - 21:55 Reply with quote Back to top

If there was a rule to at least stop players with no spps and say less than 6 turns of play to have it then it would at least avoid a few of the weirdest cases. But I think the random rule just simplifies things for tabletop. And as mentioned above maybe a player bribes the judges!

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Mossbeard



Joined: Jul 03, 2005

Post   Posted: May 25, 2016 - 22:18 Reply with quote Back to top

The_Wogans, so when you have a bad game and get hammered on instead of your opponent getting 25 spps and you just getting 5 spps for mvp, you would get nothing at all?

No point in giving extra rewards to the team who scored 4 tds when they are already getting 12 spps for that.
mrt1212



Joined: Feb 26, 2013

Post   Posted: May 25, 2016 - 22:25 Reply with quote Back to top

Mossbeard wrote:
The_Wogans, so when you have a bad game and get hammered on instead of your opponent getting 25 spps and you just getting 5 spps for mvp, you would get nothing at all?

No point in giving extra rewards to the team who scored 4 tds when they are already getting 12 spps for that.


yeah, the rich dont need to get richer in BB
garyt1



Joined: Mar 12, 2011

Post   Posted: May 25, 2016 - 22:55 Reply with quote Back to top

mrt1212 wrote:


yeah, the rich dont need to get richer in BB

A noble cause though the argument doesn't work so well when teams that win are getting extra winnings.
MVP is perhaps the one moment of equality in the game. You get different tiers. You get good and bad players within teams and tiers. But the MVP is a potential friend and great equalizer to all.

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Lorebass



Joined: Jun 25, 2010

Post   Posted: May 25, 2016 - 23:45
FUMBBL Staff
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thoralf wrote:
I thought MVPs made no sense until Lorebass won two in the first three games of the Raging Rougeaus.


He is right, it makes a ton of sense now.
The_Wogans



Joined: Aug 11, 2015

Post   Posted: May 26, 2016 - 10:06 Reply with quote Back to top

I think everyone is in agreement that my idea is a bad one, but to be clear I wasn't saying the losing team would get nothing, I was saying the losing team would get the normal, randomly assigned MVP plus any 'team achievements' added on.

An example:

Skaven vs Ogres. Skaven run lightning fast around the ogres, scoring 4 tds and not conceding at all. The Ogres, realising they're beat, start focusing on piling onto the little rats and kicking them while they're down. After causing some Cas, they finally manage to kill one. The game then ends.

MVP for Skaven = normal MVP + 1 for scoring >3TDs + 1 for keeping a clean sheet. So 7 spp randomly assigned to a rat.
MVP for Ogres = normal MVP + 1 for killing an opposing player. So 6 spp randomly assigned to a ogre/snot.

My reasoning was to create something worth playing for even if you're obviously going to lose- there could be achievement for clearing the pitch, killing a player etc. Also, scoring lots of TDs only helps skill your star catcher... by linking MVP to team achievements your dependable lino gets to bask in the reflected glory of the catcher and get 6spp rather than 5 if the catcher scores loads in a game.
ArrestedDevelopment



Joined: Sep 14, 2015

Post   Posted: May 26, 2016 - 11:55 Reply with quote Back to top

The_Wogans wrote:
I think everyone is in agreement that my idea is a bad one, but to be clear I wasn't saying the losing team would get nothing, I was saying the losing team would get the normal, randomly assigned MVP plus any 'team achievements' added on.

An example:

Skaven vs Ogres. Skaven run lightning fast around the ogres, scoring 4 tds and not conceding at all. The Ogres, realising they're beat, start focusing on piling onto the little rats and kicking them while they're down. After causing some Cas, they finally manage to kill one. The game then ends.

MVP for Skaven = normal MVP + 1 for scoring >3TDs + 1 for keeping a clean sheet. So 7 spp randomly assigned to a rat.
MVP for Ogres = normal MVP + 1 for killing an opposing player. So 6 spp randomly assigned to a ogre/snot.

My reasoning was to create something worth playing for even if you're obviously going to lose- there could be achievement for clearing the pitch, killing a player etc. Also, scoring lots of TDs only helps skill your star catcher... by linking MVP to team achievements your dependable lino gets to bask in the reflected glory of the catcher and get 6spp rather than 5 if the catcher scores loads in a game.



It's still awful.

You started by dropping the MVP to 3-4 points. That in itself alone makes the rest of the process slanted. You've started by "punishing" a team by dropping the baseline.

You then add on "goals" - not every team can score equally, not every team can defend equally and quite frankly, at low TV cas is quite often non-existent for some teams as well: I've had chaos dwarves play multiple games without scoring a casualty at low TV. One of which was against Skaven where I never even got a KO until turn 16 (in 21 box games this cdorf team has killed a grand total of 3 players).

With most teams not having much mighty blow at low/starting TV, cas is absolutely a much dicier proposition, and I would say that agility teams have a better shot at both attack and defence at low TV as well, provided you play them properly. You're for giving teams that already have an advantage in SPP accrual an even bigger foothold?

There already is an achievement for "killing a player" - it's casualty SPP. You already have things to play for if you're going to lose for sure - it's called SPP. You don't maximise anyone's potential for completing a game by reducing the MVP spp, you actually increase the likelihood of them conceding while "it's just 3/4 points". Especially with starting teams that they may just retire/recycle.

Does everyone have that attitude? No, but not everyone playing bloodbowl can decide to play against stunties or whatever after playing 5 games with completely fruitless results.

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