garyt1
Joined: Mar 12, 2011
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Jun 26, 2016 - 00:42 |
 
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The guy clearly prefers playing on tabletop to online gaming. There certainly are some folks who wont acknowledge they have had a lot of luck on the way to a particular victory. I'm sure he would have the same or even worse opinion on Cyanide if he played there. Good responses by Purplechest and HM. Although a little harsh they were fair. Sadly the OP took Purplechest's 2nd option which was rage quitting, and I think he was thinking of doing that when he started the thread anyway. Maybe he was hoping for everyone just to say they agree.
As for Thoralf saying he used to argue more he must really have been arguing a helluva lot in the past! |
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almic85
Joined: May 25, 2009
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Jun 26, 2016 - 01:24 |
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To the OP to put it bluntly yes the playing of blood owl on fumbbl is a less personal experience for most players and there is definitely a major difference in playing styles and what is considered appropriate tactics to win such as stalling, turn 16 fouling, etc. the tabletop community generally spend weeks assembling and painting their teams and years developing them to the level of some fumble teams and have a greater emotional investment in their models and teams. Online gaming refers to this as pixel hugging because Theresa no great investment in time and effort to put a team on the pitch.
It is simply just a product of what you need to do to play in both formats as well as the quantity of games played by coaches. My local league plays one round every three weeks and the games are savoured. My online league plays one game a week and I am able to get over a bad game much quicker.
I suggest using fumbbl for what it is for you. An easier way to play a game against a smarter AI than you are used too.
On a side note I actually find it really odd that harvestmouse is the coach coming across as the hard one because every time I have dealt with him in game and out he is always super friendly and approachable and fun to play against. There are relatively few coaches that love the game as much as him and if he is trying to make a point it is usually a valid one.
Thoralf you are also right in that these threads often spin off and away from the OP and become something else. The OP appears to be wanting the online experience (across cultures, languages, ages and hopefully genders) to be the same as his experience in his local and other tabletop experiences. Bluntly that is not going to happen. |
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Wreckage
Joined: Aug 15, 2004
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Jun 26, 2016 - 01:39 |
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| almic85 wrote: | | On a side note I actually find it really odd that harvestmouse is the coach coming across as the hard one because every time I have dealt with him in game and out he is always super friendly and approachable and fun to play against. There are relatively few coaches that love the game as much as him and if he is trying to make a point it is usually a valid one. |
As with all these threads... there is just no better way to crash a party than charging in, taking the mik and to say: "You are all pricks, I'm outta here." |
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Tymless
Joined: Jul 01, 2004
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Jun 26, 2016 - 03:46 |
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As always I will just go back to:
Words to blood bowl by:
1: Its a game, have fun.
2: Everyones fun is different.
3: No one cares if you have fun. They are having their own fun.
4: Knowing the odds doesnt make you a good player.
5: Ignoring the odds will make you a bad player.
6: Do the safe stuff first, unless you got a better plan.
7: Try not to roll dice, but don't be afraid to at the right time.
8: Players die.
9: 1 in 6 odds of failing does not mean it will work.
10: Never trust an elf.
11: Anything with ag4 or higher counts as an elf. gutter Runners count as dangerous elves.
11: One elf is enough to beat anyone. Two is often overkill.
12: Just because everyone hates dwarves, doesnt mean they are unbeatable.
13: A bad plan can still work.
14: In the abscence of a good plan, a bad plan will do.
15: If you have no plan at all, just be lucky.
16: To get lucky, you have to try to be lucky.
17: Failing a long odds move isnt Nuffle. Making 2 long odds moves and then failing the 2+, thats Nuffle.
18: Nuffle knows funny, and Nuffle LIKES funny.
19: Yes. Someone, somewhere has done that already.
20: Anything can work, one sixth of the time.
1 Your ‘Bad Dice’ are not the fault of your opponent.
2 Your opponents ‘Good Dice’ are not the fault of your opponent.
3 Your opponent does not usually think your dice are as bad as you think they are.
4 Your opponent does not usually think his dice are as good as you think they are.
5 Any roll can succeed on a six no matter how unlikely it is.
6 Any roll can fail on a one no matter how easy it should be.
7 Re-rolls will fail sometimes.
8 Every other Coach has suffered from this at sometime in the past.
9 Most other coaches understand when you are truly having bad luck but there is nothing they can do that will help ease your frustration.
10 It is a dice game. |
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harvestmouse
Joined: May 13, 2007
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Jun 26, 2016 - 04:46 |
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Thanks for the kind words Almic and Gary. This is the last I'll say on the matter, as I don't believe the thread deserved the attention it's got.
Aside from the trolling nature of the OPs post, lets look at his 2 key points and thoralf's.
| thoralf wrote: | | You might be referring to reciprocation, which is two-way. |
Rather than reciprocation, which suggests if your opponent is nice or has been nice in the past, you should reciprocate; I mean rather 'you reap what you sow'. If you are a good sport and nice person to play, most opponent's will reciprocate. The fact the OP (according to him) has had mainly poor encounters, suggests something. As does his overall tone and further proof submitted. "Don't crap in the swimming pool and then complain about the water quality."
So, getting on to his 2 key points:
We all rage a bit at bad dice, and so we should. But it's more what we do when we're having the better game that makes us decent people.
I disagree. I believe it's what we do when winning and losing that makes us decent people. If anything being a good loser (harder to concede when losing, than being humble when winning) is more important and will leave a longer lasting impression. That said they're both important.
Now, we cannot control how we feel when we feel we've been diced (hindsight suggests that a lot of dicing aren't actually dicings but basic human emotions). However how you control your actions says a lot about you as a player. "Reap what you sow".
A game and site like this is only as good as it's community. Unfortunately, my experience in a majority of matches has not been good.
The OP is suggesting that the level of camaraderie here is nowhere near that of the TT scene. This is of course true, but how can it be? Expecting it to be so, is an impossible dream and a little bit naive. You just don't have the social experience of TT and of course most players here saturate their need to play. To the point where a lot of coaches don't feel excited about playing the game, it's more of a routine.
That of course is a problem, but also a blessing in that you can play so much. All that aside, actual bad behaviour is punished and controlled a lot better than most gaming sites. Play a few weeks of League of Legends and you'll see what FUMBBL would be like without the shadow of the admin staff looming over us. I for one and thankful for the shade that shadow gives us. It's easy to be negative about FUMBBL, and it isn't perfect. However we all should be thankful, and that's not directed at anybody in particular. |
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JackassRampant
Joined: Feb 26, 2011
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Jun 26, 2016 - 18:18 |
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You can find that camaraderie here, sort of like that which exists in a game-store TT league. You just can't find it on Blackbox.
Well, kinda you can. If you play a lot of Box or Ranked and show good sportsmanship* and seem reliable, you'll get invited to a league or two.
* This means different things to different people. You have to respect that. To me, a turn 16 foul is a sign of respect. To a lot of coaches it's a jerk move. |
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jdm
Joined: Nov 30, 2011
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Jun 26, 2016 - 18:26 |
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I like playing box, it's fun and I get to play against lots of nice people from all over the world.
I like playing ranked, it's fun and I get to play against lots of nice people from all over the world.
I like fumbbl, it's fun and I get to play against lots of nice people from all over the world.
Some of these people want different things out of the game than I do, that's cool, we all enjoy playing here and I get enough out of every game to keep me coming back for more. If I didn't then I wouldn't. I've had one bad opponent out of the thousand plus I've played in the last 9 months. And that coach left the site since. I'm sure the bad guys are out there, but it's odd, I approach each game with a positive attitude and a smile and somehow I never face the bad guys.
Not sure what this adds other than my personal experience. Just wanted to share that. |
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thoralf
Joined: Mar 06, 2008
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Jun 26, 2016 - 19:32 |
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| harvestmouse wrote: | | If you are a good sport and nice person to play, most opponent's will reciprocate. |
This is more than consistent with the OP's point - it follows from it. Leading by example is key to a better gaming experience. The specific problem raised by the OP is to decide who should take the lead, not who to blame if bad experiences occur. Blaming is almost as lazy and boring as ad homs.
If you have to bet between someone who is angry to "take it like a man," or someone who could show some magnanimity when winning, the odds should be on the magnamous side. Very little empathy suffices to recall how it sucks to get diced. A little more empathy may be needed to notice the effects of mirroring what your opponent feels.
"You reap what you sow" may not be the best way to respond to someone who's complaining about getting diced. The (metaphysically) opposite "it's just a dice game" may not be that much better. Worse might be "suck it up, your whining is wasting my fun" - it could even reap what it sows.
***
"You reap what you sow" may very well have been the first causal law. As a metaphysical truism, it has long been discredited. As a moral maxim, it's even toxic. Perhaps it would be better to take an idiom where the reciprocation is more explicit, like it takes two to tango. |
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MonkeyMan576
Joined: Jul 02, 2008
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Jun 26, 2016 - 19:37 |
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I don't agree that "it's basically a dice game" a good player will beat a poor player 3 out of 4 times. But there's no point in complaining that one time it doesn't happen, and there are a lot of people that whine whenever they lose against a lower rated opponent. |
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the_Sage
Joined: Jan 13, 2011
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Jun 26, 2016 - 20:17 |
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When I know I have far better dice, I'll generally comment something along the lines of 'oh hey another pow' or 'damn, paper armor on those dwarves today'. Often, opponents will only bitch about luck being against them, which annoys me. So I try to acknowledge especially when I know I'm the luckier one.
| thoralf wrote: |
"You reap what you sow" may very well have been the first causal law. As a metaphysical truism, it has long been discredited. As a moral maxim, it's even toxic. |
'you reap what you sow' is a bit off, but what of 'do unto others as you would have them do unto you'? |
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pythrr
Joined: Mar 07, 2006
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Jun 26, 2016 - 21:06 |
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| thoralf wrote: |
"You reap what you sow" may very well have been the first causal law. As a metaphysical truism, it has long been discredited. As a moral maxim, it's even toxic. Perhaps it would be better to take an idiom where the reciprocation is more explicit, like it takes two to tango. |
WE DO NOT SOW
(Box motto) |
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mrt1212
Joined: Feb 26, 2013
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Jun 27, 2016 - 07:43 |
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| JackassRampant wrote: | You can find that camaraderie here, sort of like that which exists in a game-store TT league. You just can't find it on Blackbox.
Well, kinda you can. If you play a lot of Box or Ranked and show good sportsmanship* and seem reliable, you'll get invited to a league or two.
* This means different things to different people. You have to respect that. To me, a turn 16 foul is a sign of respect. To a lot of coaches it's a jerk move. |
A few of us Boxites are socially invested in #metabox and we have a hoot chatting about games, personalities, clucking like hens as we are wont to do. IRC isn't that bad guys. |
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thoralf
Joined: Mar 06, 2008
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Jun 27, 2016 - 08:11 |
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| the_Sage wrote: | | [W]hat of 'do unto others as you would have them do unto you'? |
This would cohere with the idea that empathy goes a long way. We could weaken it and make it directional with this maxim:
| Quote: | | Be liberal in what you accept, and conservative in what you send. |
This one has the advantage of hinting at an explanation as to why dividing between conservatives and liberals could lead to a schizoid society. |
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mrt1212
Joined: Feb 26, 2013
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Jun 27, 2016 - 08:24 |
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3 words to live by: Nuffle wills it |
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Badoek
Joined: May 17, 2009
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Jun 27, 2016 - 09:42 |
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I think HM is wrong about the trolling and the tone of the OP. The "understanding the game" part sounds bad but I think it's not meant that way (but using the words like that leaves WAY too much room for interpretation).
Then again I think the OP is wrong about the importance of how you handle good and bad dice. Handling good dice: not that important. If the other is mentioning it? Well, best form would be to agree/admit but the other shouldn't make a (big) point of it IF mentioning it at all.
Handling bad dice: now THAT's what makes a game (un)pleasant. Rant against the player that failed his dodge/block etc? Fine! Rage against the machine(RNG)? Bad form! Complaining about how you're losing because of your bad dice? Worse!
I'm mostly a very laid back coach, but: if you can't stand the heat stay out of the kitchen because FUMBBL has quite some hot stoves and ovens. (oooh terrible puns). |
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