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Poll
Best Team for a Defensive Style
Dark Elves
15%
 15%  [ 12 ]
Dorfs
17%
 17%  [ 14 ]
Orcs
15%
 15%  [ 12 ]
Lizardmen
6%
 6%  [ 5 ]
Slann
3%
 3%  [ 3 ]
Wood Elves
3%
 3%  [ 3 ]
Undead
2%
 2%  [ 2 ]
Nurgle
27%
 27%  [ 22 ]
Vampire
2%
 2%  [ 2 ]
Necro
0%
 0%  [ 0 ]
other
5%
 5%  [ 4 ]
Total Votes : 79


MattDakka



Joined: Oct 09, 2007

Post   Posted: Jul 23, 2016 - 05:15 Reply with quote Back to top

Uedder wrote:
MattDakka wrote:
Because you can avoid it easily, since you are not forced to get close to it, unlike on offence, when you can keep your ball carrier near the Ball & Chain therefore luring the opponent players close to it.
Moreover, the opponent can score and make the Ball & Chain get ejected.


Wierd, i had always thought both forcing a quick score and pushing the offence onto one side of the pitch were good defensive values...

Good luck with defending using a Ball & Chain considering that part of its movement is random, it's just 3 squares, and you need to protect it or your opponent will knock it down and remove from the pitch.
A Ball & Chain on defence is clearly not a problem and, if the Goblins deploy it on defence then their offence will suck and they will probably struggle to score or will even suffer a TD.
Anyway, if you want, feel free to play with me using your defensive Ball & Chain tactic in a League match so maybe I can get the details I'm missing, because this theoric discussion is reaching a point of futility I can't stand any longer.
Rags



Joined: Nov 09, 2008

Post   Posted: Jul 23, 2016 - 14:08 Reply with quote Back to top

Slann blitzers have the unique beginning combination of Diving Tackle and Jump up, and access to General, Agility, and Strength Skills. They're effective markers to begin, better once they're Blodged, and among the best if Stand Firm or Sidestep is taken as third (SF probably better).

This marking ability is enhanced by Leap, allowing them to mark players even who are covered, and/or get to positions were marking several players at once (though they should stay away from Tackle)

It's just one aspect, but a couple of these guys can be hard (or risky) to get by, a great start for a strong defensive build.


pythrr wrote:
Wreckage wrote:
Depends on how you define 'defensive' really.
If you are talking about winning the kicking=(defensive) drives, Slann are certainly not a bad choice in the sense that they have ball retrieval skills.

But I guess what the OP means is a race that is solid at caging and positioning, basically the basics of the game.

It's a bit boring because that's pretty much the go-to race for anyone new but I'd say Orcs. One of the strongest races in the game and they excell at slow (defensive) grinding plays but don't do very well when they drop the ball.


agreed. at least at low/mid TV. when you start facing claw/mb regualrly, Orcs rapidly become Tier 2.
Kammo22



Joined: Jun 11, 2011

Post   Posted: Jul 23, 2016 - 14:29 Reply with quote Back to top

I have to say nurgle. Of course it depends how you are going to define "defensive" but to me tentacles, foul appearance and disturbing presence as starting skills are pretty much the definition of defensive stance.
licker



Joined: Jul 10, 2009

Post   Posted: Jul 23, 2016 - 16:00 Reply with quote Back to top

Rags wrote:
Slann blitzers have the unique beginning combination of Diving Tackle and Jump up, and access to General, Agility, and Strength Skills. They're effective markers to begin, better once they're Blodged, and among the best if Stand Firm or Sidestep is taken as third (SF probably better).

This marking ability is enhanced by Leap, allowing them to mark players even who are covered, and/or get to positions were marking several players at once (though they should stay away from Tackle)

It's just one aspect, but a couple of these guys can be hard (or risky) to get by, a great start for a strong defensive build.


I don't want to poop on the slann, because they are a solid defensive squad, include the krox who can help to tie up the opponent a bit. But...

There are certain teams (mostly elfs and other leapers) who simply don't give a crap about diving tackle, and there are bash at higher TVs who will just grind your markers into dust since slann are still a 3+ escape team (though leap does help with positioning) who cannot mark bash effectively the way the blodge/side step elfs can when necessary.

Slann certainly do have some very favorable defensive matchups though.
JackassRampant



Joined: Feb 26, 2011

Post   Posted: Jul 23, 2016 - 17:39 Reply with quote Back to top

Slann are okay at any TV, if you build them for the TV they're playing at. I made a RRR final with just a bunch of linefrogs and 4 RR+Apo (maybe I had 12 linos or 11 linos and a Catcher or something, IDR). Basically they're a bunch of Human Linos who have a special gimmick the opponent always has to play around, even if you seldom use it. And you can win games with Human Linos at the rookie level, even if I'm not entirely sure that gimmick is worth starting with no Block or anything. IDK if I'd put them in the "best defensive team" conversation unless you're playing at a high level with a great coach, like the Green Ball Attackers. (They gave up 8 TD in 14 games last season.)

But as the best team for defensive play at low TV for a coach with one game's FUMBBL experience? Not Slann.

I'd make a joke about it not being easy being green, but it's just the wrong shade. Play Orcs, have it easy. Well, easier. For awhile.

The real truth is that the best defensive squad is the one run by the best coach. And if that's equal-ish, it's the one with the best racial or developmental matchup, and if that's equal, it's the one with the best dice. Or something like that. Which race is best is really a matter of how you play.

For a new coach just learning the game, there are a handful of races I'd recommend. Amazons, Dwarfs, Orcs, Undead, Skaven, maybe Humans, Dark Elves, or Wood Elves if you're so inclined. Maybe play a different race, but whatever you play, expect savvy coaches to try to draw out your weaknesses. If you play a race with a lot of weaknesses, expect a steeper learning curve.

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PainState



Joined: Apr 04, 2007

Post   Posted: Jul 23, 2016 - 18:14 Reply with quote Back to top

Sometimes the best teams on defense are the best ones on offense because they can bring some serious bash. Serious bash will de pitch players when they are on defense forcing you to score. Thus they go back on offense and lay the serious hurt on you.

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licker



Joined: Jul 10, 2009

Post   Posted: Jul 23, 2016 - 19:26 Reply with quote Back to top

PainState wrote:
Sometimes the best teams on defense are the best ones on offense because they can bring some serious bash. Serious bash will de pitch players when they are on defense forcing you to score. Thus they go back on offense and lay the serious hurt on you.


This is basically just saying 'sometimes the best teams on defense are the ones who roll the best dice'.

No doubt that if you have alot of tackle and MB and you're playing AV7 dodgy things your 'defense' will probably look pretty good.

When you play av9? Not so much.
kummo



Joined: Mar 29, 2016

Post   Posted: Jul 23, 2016 - 21:38 Reply with quote Back to top

JackassRampant wrote:
For a new coach just learning the game, there are a handful of races I'd recommend. Amazons, Dwarfs, Orcs, Undead, Skaven, maybe Humans, Dark Elves, or Wood Elves if you're so inclined.


You are recommending Skaven for new coach? And Wood Elfs?

Wood Elfs might work for new coach if he understands avoiding getting hit and protecting positionals.. and understanding positioning and counting each players movement (opponents and own)..

Skaven are almost like woodies but i believe that they are even harder to control than any elfs are. Ag3 on linemen means that avoiding contact is even harder.. with skaven you don't want to skill linerats (whereas it is ok to skill any elf in any elf team.. any player can become useful.. in skaven the linerats just bloat tv and that is really hard for new coaches to understand).

Also ballhandling and stealing the ball with skaven is harder. Skaven is a good team if it's controlled by agility coach.. but new coaches tend to be bit bashier and straight forward.

Yeah.. new coaches can make skaven teams.. i did.. after a while i understood how i misdeveloped them and bloated the tv.. yeah, you can recommend skaven for new coaches for sure but 1st skaven team should be a test team for most fresh coaches.. not the one that you stick with.. woodies are harder to fail but av7 can lead them to retire complete team(s)..

For new coaches i'd say that learn basics of defense with Orcs & Dwarfs and basic ballgame with Dark Elfs.. and try humans too since they kinda do both.

Dark Elfs because with av8 you can position your players quite well and take occasional hits.. ag4 is reliable for learning some ballplay elements even without pass and catch skills.. high elfs might work too.. maybe?

I didn't choose anything on the poll since many races can defend.. they just do it differently..
JackassRampant



Joined: Feb 26, 2011

Post   Posted: Jul 23, 2016 - 23:05 Reply with quote Back to top

Agreed, but you should follow your instincts re: bash vs speed, and if you gotta start with speed they're about the most forgiving of the speed teams. DE are too slow, HE don't have enough skills, PE have all the problems of both Skaven and HE put together, WE are okay but it's hard playing with either just one Dancer or just two RRs. And outside of elves and rats, there isn't a lot of speed/agility.

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Faulcon



Joined: Aug 02, 2003

Post   Posted: Jul 24, 2016 - 04:47 Reply with quote Back to top

Take chaos dorfs and embrace the clawpomb. When all your opponents are off the pitch you can do whatever you want with the ball!

(You'll never get games in ranked though)
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