JackassRampant
Joined: Feb 26, 2011
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 Posted:
Jul 26, 2016 - 21:13 |
 
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| plasmoid wrote: | | Part of the intent of the (properly implemented) bank rule is to put a soft cap on TV. |
I can see that it could do that: the Bank would have annoyed (not hindered) my NBFL Orcs last season (as if Orcs needed a nerf at high TV anymore: Claw does it nicely). But I think Jervis was right, the Bank rule is mostly a penalty for losing menz when you're out-bashed for one reason or another. I'd like to see some reason for teams to spend small amounts of money more frequently than they do, but this isn't the one, in my book, and I kinda hope the new rules don't implement it, or if they do, implement it at 200k, rather than 100k or 150k. |
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mrt1212
Joined: Feb 26, 2013
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Jul 26, 2016 - 21:20 |
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| JackassRampant wrote: | | plasmoid wrote: | | Part of the intent of the (properly implemented) bank rule is to put a soft cap on TV. |
I can see that it could do that: the Bank would have annoyed (not hindered) my NBFL Orcs last season (as if Orcs needed a nerf at high TV anymore: Claw does it nicely). But I think Jervis was right, the Bank rule is mostly a penalty for losing menz when you're out-bashed for one reason or another. I'd like to see some reason for teams to spend small amounts of money more frequently than they do, but this isn't the one, in my book, and I kinda hope the new rules don't implement it, or if they do, implement it at 200k, rather than 100k or 150k. |
A bank rule would have made my NBFL High Elves even more of a grind. Would have to gradually introduce players while still battling SE and potentially losing even more along the way...
This idea that teams stockpiling gold to ascend the TV mountain are somehow in need of correcting strikes me as something similar to using chemo therapy to fix the sniffles. |
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licker
Joined: Jul 10, 2009
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Jul 27, 2016 - 00:00 |
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NBFL really shouldn't be used an example for how the bank would affect anything... |
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JackassRampant
Joined: Feb 26, 2011
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Jul 27, 2016 - 00:02 |
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I'm searching for other examples that aren't perverse. And I'm failing to find any. |
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Antithesisoftime
Joined: Aug 20, 2014
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Jul 27, 2016 - 01:23 |
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| JackassRampant wrote: | | I'm searching for other examples that aren't perverse. And I'm failing to find any. |
KPL does a better job than NBFL in that respect.
As I stated earlier, after 2 seasons, I have bank enough to replace 4 vamps, or 11 thralls Ayer any match. This kinda goes against the idea that only bash teams can save cash, or only agility teams that avoid bash can save money. In KPL, I play against almost exclusively bash |
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Matthueycamo
Joined: May 16, 2014
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Jul 27, 2016 - 01:50 |
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Why not just give teams 10,000,000 gold to start out with and then nobody has "unfair" levels of gold!
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garyt1
Joined: Mar 12, 2011
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Jul 27, 2016 - 03:13 |
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| plasmoid wrote: | | PS - during PBBL/CRP development, the Bank rule replaced an actual hard cap on TV. |
A poor rule instead of a very bad rule. Though previous versions didn't have a rule like this, nor need it. Ok you may not want small numbers of huge TV teams dominating a league but other teams could also build up. |
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garyt1
Joined: Mar 12, 2011
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Jul 27, 2016 - 03:19 |
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| Antithesisoftime wrote: | | As I stated earlier, after 2 seasons, I have bank enough to replace 4 vamps, or 11 thralls Ayer any match. |
As I stated regen teams also can save money easily..
I can only imagine my annoyance if on one of the very, very rare occasions my ogres got past 200K bank they have to lose or spend some even with no player losses! So at absolute best they can replace an ogre and a few snots. I rarely saved 200k with them but the chance shouldn't be removed.
p.s. Presumably Plasmoid you have realised this is a flawed rule? |
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“A wise man can learn more from a foolish question than a fool can learn from a wise answer.” |
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mrt1212
Joined: Feb 26, 2013
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Jul 27, 2016 - 03:45 |
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| garyt1 wrote: | | plasmoid wrote: | | PS - during PBBL/CRP development, the Bank rule replaced an actual hard cap on TV. |
A poor rule instead of a very bad rule. Though previous versions didn't have a rule like this, nor need it. Ok you may not want small numbers of huge TV teams dominating a league but other teams could also build up. |
I also don't get writing something so restrictive into a base ruleset. Trust the league managers to implement solutions to problems, let freedom ring elsewhere! |
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Antithesisoftime
Joined: Aug 20, 2014
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Jul 27, 2016 - 03:53 |
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| garyt1 wrote: | | Antithesisoftime wrote: | | As I stated earlier, after 2 seasons, I have bank enough to replace 4 vamps, or 11 thralls Ayer any match. |
As I stated regen teams also can save money easily.. |
I have a Goblin team and an Underworld team, each sitting on over 300k in the bank, and Dark Elves sitting on a bank of 420k. Heck, even have a Norse team with 450k in the bank.
If that's not enough, I have a few Stuntee Leeg teams I can mention as well, seeing as they tend to be much more fragile than anything in Ranked.
Eshin Adepts with 400k banked
Squigs sitting on over 600k
Chaos Flings at 480k
Tell me again how low AV teams can't bank? |
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Wreckage
Joined: Aug 15, 2004
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Jul 27, 2016 - 04:04 |
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| JackassRampant wrote: | Bank rule just punishes [...] soft teams by making it harder to rebuild.
Jackass adds lengthy explanation
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Probably good somebody explains how it actually works.
Something I feel people keep missing is that this was a suggestion for league customization.
Do you guys think there should be things in league that shouldn't be customizable? |
Last edited by Wreckage on %b %27, %2016 - %04:%Jul; edited 1 time in total |
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garyt1
Joined: Mar 12, 2011
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Jul 27, 2016 - 04:14 |
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Customizable but not enforced on all leagues and open play. Perhaps the customization option would stop instances like this fella who left because he preferred the option. |
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“A wise man can learn more from a foolish question than a fool can learn from a wise answer.” |
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harvestmouse
Joined: May 13, 2007
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Jul 27, 2016 - 04:54 |
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| JackassRampant wrote: | | But I think Jervis was right, the Bank rule is mostly a penalty for losing menz when you're out-bashed for one reason or another. |
When did he say this? I thought he just didn't like the concept.
I think a lot of coaches aren't actually aware of what happened and what the alternative would have been.
The Bank Rule was supposed to be instead of Petty Cash. Any cash added would have added directly to inducements (and then TV). Rather than how Petty Cash builds the TV up to match then adds inducements. So from that front The Bank is much simpler.
Also the bank was the new form of aging (don't ask me how). However it's this whole 'restrictive' thing. It certainly doesn't do what aging did.
So according to Galak the bank had 2 uses (read into that what you wish). One as a replacement for aging and one instead of Petty Cash. So Petty Cash should not exist with The Bank, as it was designed.
So what about The Bank vs Spiralling Expenses? Which of those would you prefer? I'd prefer The Bank. I don't see why we should have both. |
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harvestmouse
Joined: May 13, 2007
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Jul 27, 2016 - 04:59 |
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| Wreckage wrote: |
Something I feel people keep missing is that this was a suggestion for league customization.
Do you guys think there should be things in league that shouldn't be customizable? |
Yes, but would that also include turning off Petty Cash and Spiralling Expenses? If not, it's not giving the bank a fair go.
Turn off PC, SE and give a team a percentage bank (i.e. the bank limit grows as the team grows) and I think it would be better..........not sure about a tiered league or an environment like Stunty where CRP as it is works very well. |
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tussock
Joined: May 29, 2011
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Jul 27, 2016 - 05:00 |
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| JackassRampant wrote: | | So please tell me what Bank would do that is more significant than making rebuilding a soft team more difficult. |
What Bank does, in theory, is make Spiralling Expenses work on the bashy high-AV teams as well as it does on the fragile low-AV teams, just at higher TV, for perpetual play where those things matter at all.
So that the Nurgs and Orcs end up a fair bit bigger than the Pro Elves and Norse before they run out of cash, but still suffer through the same difficult rebuild periods that Elves and Norse have to lower down.
In perpetual play, right now, the high-AV teams almost always have enough money to replace players, even after a hundred games or more sitting at very high TV. In one of my leagues I've seen a peak Lizard team casually replace multiple MNG Saurus for a game to avoid having a few Mercs for that one game, and why not when you've got 2 million banked.
Yes, it makes saving on mass journeymen for a jump to a 14-man team impossible, but journeymen aren't supposed to be used like that. That's a smart use of them, but not the intended one, and fumbbl already frowns on it.
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TLDR. Makes even the toughest teams suffer through more common rebuilds at sufficiently high TV, and prevents journeyman abuse. |
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