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Poll
Is CLAWPOMB really a problem?
Yes, absolutley
55%
 55%  [ 430 ]
No, Chaos Dwarfs Disagree
20%
 20%  [ 159 ]
Still Haven't Decided
9%
 9%  [ 70 ]
Pie!
15%
 15%  [ 117 ]
Total Votes : 776


koadah



Joined: Mar 30, 2005

Post   Posted: Oct 20, 2019 - 16:51 Reply with quote Back to top

Garion wrote:
koadah wrote:
Garion wrote:

As someone that's never been a fan of super high TV sillyness Seasons is the answer and will make PO pretty much worthless, however I know some people like high TV sillyness, so why not have a competative division called Blackbox, with seasons, and ranked can ignore seasons entirely and be the division for people that want to build ridiculously bloaty teams
Cool


That sounds great, but it would leave Box teams at a (worse?) disadvantage in the Majors.


I dont really care about that tbh. Arent the tourneys split by division anyway? aside from the FC?



I don't believe that they are.
It would be a good reason to give Box a Major or two of it's own.

I don't think that Christer has been keen on having different rules for Ranked & Box before. So, seasons for Ranked too.

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Last edited by koadah on Oct 20, 2019 - 20:46; edited 1 time in total
Nelphine



Joined: Apr 01, 2011

Post   Posted: Oct 20, 2019 - 17:14 Reply with quote Back to top

No, all majors are box and ranked. Not sure when that changed (last few years) but I wasn't active when it happened.
Garion



Joined: Aug 19, 2009

Post   Posted: Oct 20, 2019 - 17:16 Reply with quote Back to top

This is how i would run it if I could wave a magic wand, and I know it wouldn't be to everyone's taste, but please read all of it before jumping in. Also I discussed this with AD so a lot of these suggestions are his idea, so credit where credits due. Though we were very much on the same page as each other.

• Seasons would last 20 games. Though some would prefer 30, but lets just say 20 for now...
• When a team is moved to the new blackbox from the old blackbox they are counted as having completed a Season if they have played 20 games+. So must go through a re-draft, counting that teams final 20 games to work out re-draft money etc (the usual Seasons stuff)... This will even the playing field a bit. If they have played under 20 games they are considered as playing in Season 1 of that team’s history and carry on in the new division until they hit 20 games.
• I would bring back the Blacklist and this would prevent you playing against 2 coaches of your choice when the draw is made in the new main division. This would of course be hidden so the only person that could see your Blacklist is you. You be restricted so that once your 2 Blacklisted coaches are chosen you have to wait 30 days before you put a new name on the list after removing a name. This is to prevent people exploiting the Blacklist to game the system. (Sky Sports App does the exact same thing to prevent people sharing usernames).
• I would revert the scheduler back to its older form where it just picks teams based on closest TV. Maybe include something to stop mirror games happening as frequently, but aside from that just go off TV, keep the old 15% TV bracket for first 20 games (Season 1). (I would not like this now, but in the context of the other changes above and below this would be preferable).
• A team that is in their 1st Season cannot be scheduled against a team that is in their 2nd Season or more.
• There is no time limit to a season, it is purely based on games played.
• When a team hits their 20 game season limit they have a choice. They are presented with 2 buttons. 1 – Re-draft. 2 – Play-Offs
1 – If you click re-draft the teams 'Season Number' goes up by 1, and the team goes through their re-draft phase as detailed in the rules. 2 – if you click Play-offs the team is ready to be entered in to a major as per the official rules. And that team’s season does not end until they are knocked out of the tournament they are in. This team is essentially in limbo at this point the team cannot be selected to be draw using the scheduler. The team either has to be play in a tournament, or the coach can change their mind and enter the team in to the re-draft phase.
• A team can move in to the Play off phase any time they want, they do not have to play 20 games, regardless of games played as soon as that team is knocked out of the tournament (or wins it) they have to move in to the re-draft phase.

Personally once implemented I would give people the option to move teams into this competative division from ranked. Because the afformentioned 'final 20 games' idea the ranked teams wouldn't have an advangage really, as they would have to immediately re-draft.

Then ranked could stay as it is. For fans of bloaty teams. I would seperate the majors by division, apart from the Fumbbl cup. yeah Ranked teams would have an advantage. but who cares, everyone would know that going in.

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mrt1212



Joined: Feb 26, 2013

Post   Posted: Oct 20, 2019 - 17:26 Reply with quote Back to top

What is the deal with people who dont even play Box having ideas about Box. Go crap in your own off-brand sandbox. Wink
MattDakka



Joined: Oct 09, 2007

Post   Posted: Oct 20, 2019 - 17:31 Reply with quote Back to top

I like Garion's and AD's idea, but I would not allow blacklisting because it could be exploited (you could blacklist 2 strong coaches just to avoid them and this is against the spirit of the Black Box division).

About the season game limit: is there a reason to use 20 games limit?
What would be the expected average TV of a team with 20 games limit and 30 games limit?
And what about a Black Box Trophy using the seasons to keep the teams' growth in check, without remaking the teams from scratch after every Trophy season?

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Nelphine



Joined: Apr 01, 2011

Post   Posted: Oct 20, 2019 - 18:35 Reply with quote Back to top

IF you're doing seasons, I don't see why you'd want tv matching of any kind.
mrt1212



Joined: Feb 26, 2013

Post   Posted: Oct 20, 2019 - 18:40 Reply with quote Back to top

Garion wrote:
koadah wrote:
Garion wrote:

As someone that's never been a fan of super high TV sillyness Seasons is the answer and will make PO pretty much worthless, however I know some people like high TV sillyness, so why not have a competative division called Blackbox, with seasons, and ranked can ignore seasons entirely and be the division for people that want to build ridiculously bloaty teams
Cool


That sounds great, but it would leave Box teams at a (worse?) disadvantage in the Majors.


I dont really care about that tbh. Arent the tourneys split by division anyway? aside from the FC?


Hey Bud, I think you should get to know who the Tourney Director for Fumbbl is and who is #1 Best Boy is.

Quote:
What is the deal with people who dont even play Box having ideas about Box. Go crap in your own off-brand sandbox. Wink
Garion



Joined: Aug 19, 2009

Post   Posted: Oct 20, 2019 - 19:26 Reply with quote Back to top

mrt1212 wrote:
What is the deal with people who dont even play Box having ideas about Box. Go crap in your own off-brand sandbox. Wink


I would only play box if I could blacklist a coach. Wink

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Garion



Joined: Aug 19, 2009

Post   Posted: Oct 20, 2019 - 19:29 Reply with quote Back to top

MattDakka wrote:

And what about a Black Box Trophy using the seasons to keep the teams' growth in check, without remaking the teams from scratch after every Trophy season?


the point of seasons is you wouldn't have to start teams from scratch. The redraft would take care of that, this is also why I also separate season 1 teams and season 2+ teams. Season 2 being the even more heavy weight division. Season 1 being a sort of protection from new teams. Also remember at the end of the season as per the official rules you park your team for the tournament, the team only goes through the redraft post tournament.

MattDakka wrote:
I like Garion's and AD's idea, but I would not allow blacklisting because it could be exploited (you could blacklist 2 strong coaches just to avoid them and this is against the spirit of the Black Box division).

only avoiding 2 coaches would not have this impact. There are many legends. Plus if you consider how I have designed it, people cannot change the names on it for 30 days, which prevents exploitation.

MattDakka wrote:

About the season game limit: is there a reason to use 20 games limit?
What would be the expected average TV of a team with 20 games limit and 30 games limit?


I personally like 20 games because it seems obtainable to people that don't play insane amounts of games. as for expected TV that really depends on the race you use, some races gain TV much quicker than others.

Anyway, it's just my 2 cents. I'm sure there are many ideas out there Smile

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Last edited by Garion on Oct 20, 2019 - 19:41; edited 1 time in total
MattDakka



Joined: Oct 09, 2007

Post   Posted: Oct 20, 2019 - 19:40 Reply with quote Back to top

No matter how many coaches you avoid, even avoiding 1 is against the blind matchmaking spirit of the division, to dodge coaches there is the Ranked.
Also, from a more practical point of view, allowing a blacklist could reduce the number of draws in the Box.

About the Trophy + seasons: I know that seasons are supposed to keep in check the teams, hence I suggested that there could be a Box Trophy without making new teams every Trophy season.

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Last edited by MattDakka on Oct 20, 2019 - 19:44; edited 1 time in total
Garion



Joined: Aug 19, 2009

Post   Posted: Oct 20, 2019 - 19:43 Reply with quote Back to top

MattDakka wrote:
No matter how many coaches you avoid, even avoiding 1 is against the blind matchmaking spirit of the division, to dodge coaches there is the Ranked.
Also, from a more practical point of view, allowing a blacklist could reduce the number of draws in the Box.


I disagree. I know of a number of coaches that already pull teams from the draw when they see a specific coach online (I'm not going to go in to naming, or the ethics of this, but it happens). So I personally think it would actually benefit the site and potentially more draws would happen.

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MattDakka



Joined: Oct 09, 2007

Post   Posted: Oct 20, 2019 - 19:46 Reply with quote Back to top

In a competitive environment you can't avoid unwanted opponents.
If people don't activate when some coaches are online, just hide the online status of the coaches.
That way you can't know whether a X coach is online or offline.

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Nelphine



Joined: Apr 01, 2011

Post   Posted: Oct 20, 2019 - 19:48 Reply with quote Back to top

Garion wrote:

MattDakka wrote:

About the season game limit: is there a reason to use 20 games limit?
What would be the expected average TV of a team with 20 games limit and 30 games limit?


I personally like 20 games because it seems obtainable to people that don't play insane amounts of games. as for expected TV that really depends on the race you use, some races gain TV much quicker than others.

Anyway, it's just my 2 cents. I'm sure there are many ideas out there Smile


No, x number of games gives x value for the redraft, which means you can calculate the average TV (immediately after redraft), which gives kind of a soft cap on where your team will end up.

I don't like the idea, because I want Shindahl, and to heck with anything else *shrug*.

(I also realize that's a terrible viewpoint, but I want to allow ridiculous legends, like stunties without block who regularly face mighty blow/tackle/po players; how do I design a system like that, which also limits the single clawmbtackle legend on a low tv team AND reins in 5+ legends on a high tv team? I don't know the answer to that, but I want to find one.)


Last edited by Nelphine on Oct 20, 2019 - 19:52; edited 2 times in total
MattDakka



Joined: Oct 09, 2007

Post   Posted: Oct 20, 2019 - 19:50 Reply with quote Back to top

So, what is the average TV with 20 games and 30 games?

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Nelphine



Joined: Apr 01, 2011

Post   Posted: Oct 20, 2019 - 19:53 Reply with quote Back to top

If I remember correctly the default is 1 million +5k per cas +5k per TD (which by the way means that it rewards smashing up opponents which I think should NOT be encouraged more than it is, but it also rewards NOT stalling, so that's cool) + 10k per game.

I'd be curious to see what TV the Angry Newscasters would end up on average..


Last edited by Nelphine on Oct 20, 2019 - 20:03; edited 1 time in total
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