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Shushnik



Joined: Feb 27, 2006

Post   Posted: Jul 03, 2020 - 19:15 Reply with quote Back to top

Wow, gutter runners are good on a skaven team. That's a great argument. When you have four of them, and two blitzers, and a rat ogre, and everybody has strength 3.

*golfclap*
MattDakka



Joined: Oct 09, 2007

Post   Posted: Jul 03, 2020 - 19:25 Reply with quote Back to top

AG 4 is the key, this is why I took Two Heads to mimic it on my UW team when dodging, I didn't take Claw and MB on my UW blitzers (I took it with CRP Piling On, but not with current ruleset).
I don't use a Rat Ogre on my Skaven team, and just 1 Blitzer, but I could play even without Blitzer, because Skaven Blitzer needs a double to get Claw but until he gets it he is quite bloaty, to be honest. 90k is expensive compared to a Gutter Runner.
So, 1 Gutter Runner on UW sucks, but 4 of them are good on Skaven? I need only 1 developed Gutter Runner as ball carrier, the rest is ok with AG 4 and dodging to screen him, and you can do it quite well with Two Heads Goblins or Two Heads Skaven on an UW team, so having just 1 Gutter Runner should not be an issue.

Anyway, you look like to me like a theorycrafter (no offence intended), considering you have only 2 UW games played on FUMBBL.
If you actually played UW games in the Box you could have something to back up your theories.
There is no Gutter Runner yet on UW team, but I will play when available and we'll see how it goes.

Now that I think of it, I could even drop the UW troll to play at lower TV, considering that it's better to one turn with the Gutter Runner.
Coffee_Monster



Joined: Aug 01, 2019

Post   Posted: Jul 03, 2020 - 19:41 Reply with quote Back to top

NAF res is my preferred format, I think this change improves UW in this style.
ph0enyx13



Joined: Nov 14, 2015

Post   Posted: Jul 03, 2020 - 20:09 Reply with quote Back to top

I don't really play underworld, but wouldn't this be mostly an issue of getting a doubles on one of the linerats for guard now if the negative is that with one SV you don't have a guarder. I know adding Roxanna to the Amazons gives a lot more offensive juice and the ability to quick score on defense. I would think a gutter would help with that on an underworld team
Shushnik



Joined: Feb 27, 2006

Post   Posted: Jul 03, 2020 - 20:13 Reply with quote Back to top

Dakka, take your dick measuring attempts and shove them.

You keep making this personal. It's inappropriate and bush league.
mister__joshua



Joined: Jun 20, 2007

Post   Posted: Jul 03, 2020 - 20:18
FUMBBL Staff
Reply with quote Back to top

Are we really debating whether a Gutter Runner is better than a goblin? Very Happy

_________________
"Yeah, well, you know, that's just, like, your opinion, man." - The Dude

Mr. J's LRB7 / Forum
MattDakka



Joined: Oct 09, 2007

Post   Posted: Jul 03, 2020 - 20:19 Reply with quote Back to top

I keep making this personal because you seem to lack actual game experience with UW, and if we keep on talking we will never end to debate, because everybody can find a theory if he doesn't need to back it up with actual gameplay.

I'm not debating, he's debating about a Goblin being better than a Gutter Runner.
It looks futile to me as well... Razz

by the way, if Skitter is used in tournaments on UW teams, maybe AG 4 and MA 9 are useful, right?

I'm ready to change my mind about a Gutter Runner being good on UW teams, but, as I said, on paper, he doesn't look like a terrible addition to the team, even if that means playing with only 1 Blitzer.
Maybe I will play and find the new roster horrible, but as far as I can guess, it doesn't look terrible (and I'm not a fanboy of everything GW makes, for example I don't like the Chameleon Skink recently added).
Shushnik



Joined: Feb 27, 2006

Post   Posted: Jul 03, 2020 - 20:48 Reply with quote Back to top

I get it. You're an asshole who can't have a discussion.
MattDakka



Joined: Oct 09, 2007

Post   Posted: Jul 03, 2020 - 20:54 Reply with quote Back to top

It is possible, but I tried to back up my objections with rationale reasons, if you bother to read my past posts.
I can't play with the UW Gutter Runner yet, so, not actual gameplay to show you at the moment, this is why I said I like him on paper.
I consider the possibility of being wrong.

By the way, a thing I forgot: keeping the Thrower on the roster means you can take Leader, and since UW rrs are very expensive, I think that the Thrower is nice to have.
70k rr for 20 TV is a great bargain and helps to keep the TV low, where UW is supposed to thrive, in theory.
Also, Thrower can help to 1TTD score.
Nelphine



Joined: Apr 01, 2011

Post   Posted: Jul 03, 2020 - 21:11 Reply with quote Back to top

Sure, but you lose a thrower. so you can no longer have a cheap leader thrower AND a blodger ball carrier thrower. they have to be the same, which delays when you get it.

For me, the gutter replaces the thrower - and its a solid improvement. But the linerat replaces the blitzer, and thats a huge nerf. Overall, the linerat <<< blitzer; while the gutter >> thrower.

3 downgrades is worse than 2 upgrades. So the team overall is now worse.
MattDakka



Joined: Oct 09, 2007

Post   Posted: Jul 03, 2020 - 21:20 Reply with quote Back to top

You don't need a Blodger ball carrier Thrower.
The Thrower is there just for Leader, Sure Hands and the odd pass to 1TTD or to score, but the ball carrier of choice is the Gutter Runner, I would focus the SPPs on him.

If you think that the team can be played more as an agile team now, the new roster can be considered an improvement (unless you consider UW a bash team, but as I said, it's able to bully elves, but most races outbash it, no matter if 1 or 2 Blitzers, it's a mostly AV 7 team with some Stunty players, not made for attrition play vs proper bashers).

Also, the Gutter doesn't just replace a Thrower, as I said he's ball carrier, one turner, emergency thrower.
He can do more than just replacing a Thrower.
A Thrower can pass (although with AG 3 and MA 7 is not very good out of the box, and skilling him over a Gutter Runner is not worth it) but he can't 1TTD or run as fast and dodge as well as a Gutter Runner.
cdassak



Joined: Oct 23, 2013

Post   Posted: Jul 03, 2020 - 21:38 Reply with quote Back to top

Quit the philosophy and playtest the damn roster. Me don't like loosing the 1-2 punch and the bigger kill range / death zone you get with the Blitzer duo.

For now I will enjoy the grandfathered teams while they last and then will check this thread to read your conclusions Smile

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Last edited by cdassak on Jul 04, 2020 - 00:56; edited 1 time in total
Java



Joined: Jan 27, 2018

Post   Posted: Jul 03, 2020 - 21:55 Reply with quote Back to top

Shushnik wrote:
I get it. You're an asshole who can't have a discussion.


He is, undoubtedly, but your post come off as overly aggressive, so I don't know who to side with. Probably both? Let's all be friends.

A coach I respect, who's no fanboy, posted this in a local league FB group. It just sums it all up, I swear.

Quote:
“GW should make sure that we can make a full team with a single team box. This is AWFUL. They are just money-grabbing asshats!”

*Underworld roster is tweaked*

“GW have changed a roster so it can be built with existing sprues. This is AWFUL. They are just money-grabbing asshats!”


Let's see how the team performs before declaring it dead and buried. Grandfathered teams aside. I reckon that until all those second blitzers are dead, you won't see definitive results.



EDIT
I just wanted to clarify that I agree with Matt's point and I was being facetious when concurring about him being an asshole you cannot have a discussion with. I firmly believe you CAN have a discussion with Matt.
MattDakka



Joined: Oct 09, 2007

Post   Posted: Jul 03, 2020 - 22:15 Reply with quote Back to top

For the record, I will buy the UW Gutter Runner first, then I will fire one Blitzer and one Thrower.
At the moment I lack the gold, but I will adjust my UW team to make it compliant with current roster.
Java



Joined: Jan 27, 2018

Post   Posted: Jul 03, 2020 - 22:46 Reply with quote Back to top

I will never do such a thing.

I briefly had 7 ogres on a team and one of my secret league teams has two doomwheels.

Grandfathered teams are part of fumbbl as much as Major winners and their weird buffs.
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