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DragonsMaw



Joined: Oct 08, 2005

Post   Posted: Feb 07, 2008 - 22:15 Reply with quote Back to top

Mutation only rats.... MMMMMMMMMMMM....

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johan



Joined: Aug 02, 2003

Post   Posted: Feb 07, 2008 - 22:29 Reply with quote Back to top

How would that even work? Mutation on every skill? Because that's so broken it's not even funny.

_________________
”It's very sad
To see the ancient and distinguished game that used to be
A model of decorum and tranquillity
Become like any other sport, a battleground...”

—Benny Andersson & Björn Ulvaeus, Chess
halivaraith



Joined: Jan 09, 2007

Post   Posted: Feb 07, 2008 - 22:38 Reply with quote Back to top

Mutations aren't skills, they're all traits meaning that if you gave someone only physical access they they will automatically count as rolling doubles because they have run out of available skills, same as when a big guy picks up all the strength skills. I think this could be cool to give a demon of Tzeentch(especially a spawn) but it really doesn't fit anyone else, especially not these guys. It's the same as giving them access to everything except they can't take general, strength, agility or passing traits should they happen to roll a double...
SillySod



Joined: Oct 10, 2006

Post   Posted: Feb 07, 2008 - 22:55 Reply with quote Back to top

johan wrote:
How would that even work? Mutation on every skill? Because that's so broken it's not even funny.


Thats what I suggested. Think about it... most of the mutations really need to work with another skill to be effective. With no block or tackle (even on doubles) and RS they dont look like murderous killers to me. I can see quite a few big guys and DPs squashing them too (not to mention saws).

In any case, that was just a small suggestion for a change, perhaps you could critique the actual list?

_________________
Putting the "eh?" back into Sexeh.

"There are those to whom knowledge is a shield. There are those to whom it is a weapon. Neither view is balanced."
johan



Joined: Aug 02, 2003

Post   Posted: Feb 07, 2008 - 23:01 Reply with quote Back to top

Claw/RSC is spectacular even without block. 6 Claw/RSC-players within reasonably easy reach is just sick. They'll rack up other mutations like FA, PT, Spikes or Tentacles soon enough after that.

_________________
”It's very sad
To see the ancient and distinguished game that used to be
A model of decorum and tranquillity
Become like any other sport, a battleground...”

—Benny Andersson & Björn Ulvaeus, Chess
SvenS



Joined: Jul 07, 2007

Post   Posted: Feb 07, 2008 - 23:01 Reply with quote Back to top

Nice to see so many positive responses! =)
Keep the comments coming and I'll try to summarise again tomorrow! Very Happy
johan



Joined: Aug 02, 2003

Post   Posted: Feb 07, 2008 - 23:03 Reply with quote Back to top

Rats with AG 4 could be cool though - that would mean they get through tight places with Stunty. Even cooler with tRS, if there's someone around to TTM them!

_________________
”It's very sad
To see the ancient and distinguished game that used to be
A model of decorum and tranquillity
Become like any other sport, a battleground...”

—Benny Andersson & Björn Ulvaeus, Chess
Fizban



Joined: Sep 09, 2003

Post   Posted: Feb 08, 2008 - 07:16 Reply with quote Back to top

Cyco wrote:
0-2 Rat Ogres 6528 Regular skills - S Ph
0-6 Giant Rats: 5 1 3 5 Stunty, Dodge, Two heads, No Hands, Really Stupid, RSC - A Ph
0-4 Packmasters: 6 2 3 6 Dodge, Stunty, Guard, Foul Apperence, P. Tail - A Ph
0-16 throtlings: 5 1 3 6 Dodge, Stunty - A Ph


I really really love the idea of giant rats flying through the air, landing well and thne being too stupid to remember what they were supposed to do once they got there.

Lets soup up the rats to force people to use them to block, as opposed to just stand around and have tails. Then the throtlings can suck and the Packmasters can be the lynchpin players on the team.

0-2 Rat Ogres 6 5 2 8 Frenzy, Mighty Blow, Wild Animal, Prehensile Tail - S, Ph
0-6 Giant Rats 5 1 4 5 Dodge, Stunty, No Hands, Really Stupid, Prehensile Tail, Right Stuff, Razor Sharp Claws - A, Ph
0-2 Packmasters 6 2 3 6 Dodge, Stunty, Guard, Throw Team Mate - G, A, Ph
0-12 Throtlings 5 1 3 6 - Dodge, Stunty - A, Ph

This roster will let packmasters throw their rats, and generally run the show. Which is as it should be - they are the only players on the roster with any brains.

Rats are now scary - they don't have two heads, but they can still run around almost with impunity and also land well. The hilarious hitch is that they can't get thrown somewhere and remember to act half the time. As well, they are made of glass, being stunty with AV5.

Rat Ogres are big, mean and angry. They kill stuff and love it.

Throtlings suck a lot. But they are also your best bet to score - interesting.

The way to play the team would be to decide how many rats to put on vs. throtlings. The throtlings are like hobbos on a CD team - you need them to deal with the ball.

Still needs work, but I really want to be able to throw the rats around.

Fiz
SillySod



Joined: Oct 10, 2006

Post   Posted: Feb 08, 2008 - 07:30 Reply with quote Back to top

The rats there are too brittle IMO. If they get blocked then they snap far worse than sontlings, they can't pick up the ball, they have stupidity... the claws and the tails are their only redeeming feature.

Guard on the packmasters is nice.

_________________
Putting the "eh?" back into Sexeh.

"There are those to whom knowledge is a shield. There are those to whom it is a weapon. Neither view is balanced."
deckerCKY



Joined: Feb 24, 2005

Post   Posted: Feb 08, 2008 - 08:31 Reply with quote Back to top

For reference, I couldn't find the hell pit armylist for warhammer in english, but it's available online in spanish: http://es.games-workshop.com/warhammer/skavens/ayudas/lista_01.asp

Here's the information on throtlings (I think) run through an online translator:


Throtoides*

/manada Ptos.: 40
The throtoides are thus called due to the obsessive odd habit of Throt the Impure one to fuse creatures with stone balsam trims between a project and another one. The terrorífica variety of legs, fauces and minds horribly affected resulting crawls by the depths of the Infernal Well and it loosen like meat of tube in the days of war. The few rest of intelligence that demonstrate these unfortunate creatures cause that they do not support that nobody contemplates its repugnant bodies, reason why at all costs try to eliminate which observes in startings of envy and aversion by they themselves.
M IS HP F R H I TO L
Throtoide 15 3 0 3 3 1 4 1 2
Gentleman of Beasts 15 3 3 3 3 1 4 1 5

Size of the unit: a unit of Throtoides is made up of one or more herds (a 6 herd consists of Throtoides and a Gentleman of the Beasts). You can include so many herds as you want and to unite them so that they form a unit.

Arms and armor: the Throtoides does not have arms nor armor; the Gentlemen of the Beasts have light armor, cutting weapon and whip.

Special rules: mixed unit, death of the gentleman of the beasts. In addition, the Throtoides is so repugnant that they cause fear.
SvenS



Joined: Jul 07, 2007

Post   Posted: Feb 08, 2008 - 08:54 Reply with quote Back to top

fizban wrote:
0-2 Rat Ogres 6 5 2 8 Frenzy, Mighty Blow, Wild Animal, Prehensile Tail - S, Ph
0-6 Giant Rats 5 1 4 5 Dodge, Stunty, No Hands, Really Stupid, Prehensile Tail, Right Stuff, Razor Sharp Claws - A, Ph
0-2 Packmasters 6 2 3 6 Dodge, Stunty, Guard, Throw Team Mate - G, A, Ph
0-12 Throtlings 5 1 3 6 - Dodge, Stunty - A, Ph

While I like the guard idea instead of P access on the packmasters, this roster would make the team amongst the bashiest things around!
To prevent them from outbashing the animals I think we should then leave them with just A, Ph access for balance and fluff reasons.
Then we might allow 3 aswell?
Why do you suggest going back to having them stunty btw? Non stunty with av7 would be better fluffwise IMO. Do you think that would be too good?

Giving the rats RSC will do alot to promote using them so that I think might be good, but I'd leave the av at 6 and consider leaving the mv at 6 aswell as giant rats are really quick in WFB no?.
Cyco



Joined: Nov 30, 2003

Post   Posted: Feb 08, 2008 - 11:23 Reply with quote Back to top

I just tried to turn everything upside down. To give you some new ideas. Wink

I love skavens but dont play stunty that much anymore, unfortunally, its chaos and mayhem, really funny. Maybe Ill pick it up some day.

But I think its fun with TTM, but not sure if I like the idea. Though I think they should have two-heads, as they are small as snots, and many to hit if try to tackle them dodging away.

0-4 Giant Rats 4235 Dodge, Stunty, No Hands, Prehensile Tail, Really Stupid, Razor Sharp Claws, Right Stuff
0-1 pack master 6236 Dodge, Stunty, Guard, Foul Apperance, Throw Team Mate.

If you add the abillity to throw them, their MA should be reduced to 4. If not they whould have MA 6

0-4 Giant Rats 6235 Dodge, Stunty, No Hands, Prehensile Tail, Really Stupid, Razor Sharp Claws - A Ph
0-1 pack master 6236 Dodge, Stunty, Guard, Foul Apperance - A Ph

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Never drive faster then your angels can fly.
SvenS



Joined: Jul 07, 2007

Post   Posted: Feb 08, 2008 - 12:49 Reply with quote Back to top

Reducing the rats to st1 favours gang up play which seems very fitting for rats! =)

Rats with mv4 doesnt sound right to me.
cyco wrote:
But I think its fun with TTM, but not sure if I like the idea. Though I think they should have two-heads, as they are small as snots, and many to hit if try to tackle them dodging away.

I dont see each player as a swarm, but rather single big nasty rats!

I love that ratcentaur model!
A 6136 dodge stunty dauntless, RSC star sounds fun or we could even add
0-2 Ratcentaurs 6136 Dodge, stunty, RSC, Bonehead A, G PH
and reduce the packmatsers to 2?
SvenS



Joined: Jul 07, 2007

Post   Posted: Feb 08, 2008 - 17:50 Reply with quote Back to top

Quote:
0-2 Rat Ogres 6 5 2 8 Frenzy, Mighty Blow, Wild Animal, Prehensile Tail - S, Ph 140k
0-6 Giant Rats 6 1 4 6 Dodge, Stunty, No Hands, Really Stupid, Prehensile Tail, Right Stuff, Razor Sharp Claws - A, Ph 50k (?)
0-2 Packmasters 6 2 3 7 Dodge, Guard, Throw Team Mate, Always Hungry - A, Ph 80 (?)
0-12 Throtlings 5 1 3 6 Dodge, Stunty, Regenerate - A, Ph 30k
0-2 Ratcentaurs 6 1 3 6 Dodge, Stunty, RSC, Bonehead - A, G, Ph 60k (?)
RRs at 70k
Apo Yes
Wiz no

How about this for a trial playtest run?
Edit: upped the packmasters cost a bit.


Last edited by SvenS on Feb 09, 2008 - 11:25; edited 1 time in total
Cyco



Joined: Nov 30, 2003

Post   Posted: Feb 08, 2008 - 20:27 Reply with quote Back to top

SvenS wrote:
Quote:
0-2 Rat Ogres 6 5 2 8 Frenzy, Mighty Blow, Wild Animal, Prehensile Tail - S, Ph 140k
0-6 Giant Rats 6 1 4 6 Dodge, Stunty, No Hands, Really Stupid, Prehensile Tail, Right Stuff, Razor Sharp Claws - A, Ph 50k (?)
0-2 Packmasters 6 2 3 7 Dodge, Guard, Throw Team Mate - A, Ph 80 (?)
0-12 Throtlings 5 1 3 6 Dodge, Stunty, Regenerate - A, Ph 30k
0-2 Ratcentaurs 6 1 3 6 Dodge, Stunty, RSC, Bonehead - A, G, Ph 60k (?)
RRs at 70k
Apo Yes
Wiz no

How about this for a trial playtest run?
Edit: upped the packmasters cost a bit.


Still think the Pack Masters should have Foul Apperance, for a lot of reasons...

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Never drive faster then your angels can fly.
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