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Calcium



Joined: Apr 08, 2007

Post   Posted: Jan 09, 2010 - 12:18 Reply with quote Back to top

Excellent, because now all the lizard tactics are in the open, it will make it easier to KILL THEM!!! MWAHAHAHAHAHAHA Twisted Evil

(awesome Windex, you are a god amongst cold blooded creatures!)

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JellyBelly



Joined: Jul 08, 2009

Post   Posted: Jan 09, 2010 - 14:46 Reply with quote Back to top

I love lizardmen too and this is a great guide - thanks Windex!

Maybe you could use this to update the lizardmen strategy guide in the Help system? The current one that's in there is pretty good, but yours has some new stuff and seems more comprehensive. It would also ensure that it will be used by n00bs like me for years to come, and that it won't vanish into obscurity in the forum in a couple of month's time.
Araznaroth



Joined: Oct 08, 2008

Post   Posted: Jan 09, 2010 - 15:42 Reply with quote Back to top

If this was a blog, I'd rate it six! Smile Nice job Windex! Wink
WindexChugger



Joined: Oct 06, 2008

Post   Posted: Jan 09, 2010 - 15:58 Reply with quote Back to top

Woodstock wrote:
WindexChugger wrote:
Skink Skills
Double: Dirty Player/Block, Kick/Sure Hands/Tackle.

One small remark. Strip Ball > Tackle. With stunty you can dodge in cages and try to get a -2d.


I agree completely, thanks.

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AoP-Vimes



Joined: Oct 12, 2007

Post   Posted: Jan 09, 2010 - 16:22 Reply with quote Back to top

WHOA.... and your not only a guide making god!.... Your as well the fastest typing god eva. All those block entries written in less then four minutes? Shocked Shocked Shocked

No seriously, this is AWESOME! All the cute little pics, detailled screenshot positioning, ... wow!

Big thumps up mate!

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James_Probert



Joined: Nov 25, 2007

Post   Posted: Jan 09, 2010 - 16:37 Reply with quote Back to top

reserved posts and edited later i think, look at the edit times on them

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SnakeSanders



Joined: Aug 02, 2003

Post   Posted: Jan 09, 2010 - 16:38 Reply with quote Back to top

How would you amend this guide for LRB6?

I have a few things I have been thinking of for my LRB6 team that isnt possible in LRB4

eg

You can have a HMP skink in LRB6 on a double. If you have a ball winning saurus then you can use this skink to dodge in lift the ball and toss it to the other side of the field to a diving catch skink which allows for a quick counter attacking score. I had originally thought that NOS would make this tactic super but NOS does not work on pickups
Ravenmore



Joined: Sep 10, 2008

Post   Posted: Jan 09, 2010 - 17:10 Reply with quote Back to top

I've just used the OTS scheme in this topic to snatch a win from the jaws of a...draw...um.
With dark elves and some guard instead of lizards, but thanks all the same Very Happy

WindexChugger wrote:
Lots of wise words
SvenS



Joined: Jul 07, 2007

Post   Posted: Jan 09, 2010 - 17:21 Reply with quote Back to top

Agreed. Great guide thx awesome work Very Happy
Putting it into the help section aswell, will be even better Smile

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WindexChugger



Joined: Oct 06, 2008

Post   Posted: Jan 09, 2010 - 17:42 Reply with quote Back to top

BlueDevil420 wrote:
Perhaps you can also answer this question in your guide:
What should a starting lizardman team lineup be according to you?


Check this out.
Good: Full FF, all your positionals
Bad: No apoth, one reroll

The first few games, scoring with Sauri will be hard since you've only got one reroll. Try to score with them if you can, but it's not the end of the world if a Skink scores.

Apothecary should be bought after first game, no matter what. After that replace players as they die until you have 3 rerolls. From there, you're on your own Razz

Prez wrote:
As if your selected to kick first you can be sure to receive a boot quickly to one of the Sauri on the LOS, even losing your crappist Sauri to some non perm damage can effect the game almost immediately, the WIL guys have this tactic off to an art form!!

So do you use any particular setup's to combat this threat or what are your views on this?


There's no perfect setup, but here's a few anti-foul setups:

Image
This is the best Anti-Foul setup I can think of, but it has the problem that quick snap could cause you to have 5 of your Sauri AND your Krox all knocked down on T1. This setup works especially well against low strength teams, especially those lacking Guard. This is because if your Krox has Guard, there aren't even 1die blocks against your LoS if the other team doesn't have Guard.

Image
This is the obvious counter to a Quick Snap. Unfortunately, it means your opponent has a better shot at fouling you.

Image
This one is another anti-foul setup. I like it the least, but it also covers your wings a bit. NOTE: there are two spaces above and below your wings, so opposing players can get by.


SnakeSanders wrote:
How would you amend this guide for LRB6?

I have a few things I have been thinking of for my LRB6 team that isnt possible in LRB4


I started playing Blood Bowl about a year and a half ago in my now brother-in-law's table top league. The league collapsed due to silly drama around Oct '08, around the same time I came here. Like many coaches, my first few months here were learning experiences. What I'm saying is, I wasn't a very good coach when I played LRB5. I haven't played any competitive LRB5 since then, so I have no good advice to give. Sorry.

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Doowa



Joined: Nov 25, 2003

Post   Posted: Jan 09, 2010 - 17:45 Reply with quote Back to top

Well written guide WC Smile

One thing I feel this guide is missing under "skills" is an alternative section. A section where you comment on the alternative choice like Guard for Skinks or SS on a Saurus. (A gaurding skink can be evil when combined with a fellow skink friend to break a cage. It's alternative and I wouldn't recommend the skill choice over Block or DP, but you never know where those doubles end up Smile) As you mention a Saurus is much like a BoB. A lot of ppl have succes/fun with SS on BoBs and I've found it pretty fun on Sauruses as well. Personally, I'm a sucker for SF, but SS sure is fun and annoying for your opponent, hehe

I have 1 other comment. You argue about making a saurus your ball carrier and picking up the ball with him, but you never mention taking Sure Hands in the skill section. Wouldn't that make sense with your strategy?


Perhabs I'll write a reply with my ideas about choosing skills and development another day Wink

Ps. have you seen DrDiscoStu's blogs about lizardmen?

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SnakeSanders



Joined: Aug 02, 2003

Post   Posted: Jan 09, 2010 - 17:51 Reply with quote Back to top

Wow, I dont think I could rely on my team enough to get only 1RR!

I like to start with 6 Sauri and 5 skinks, while saving up for the krox. I like to start with the sauri as they are slow to skill up. The Krox when he does come is good enough without any skills and with the MB it isnt long till he gets the 6spp he needs for Guard

In LRB6 I think Grab would be an excellent skill for him because it means you can keep him in your Prehensile Tail Zone if you cant knock him over keeping him pinned, excellent for ST/AG3 players

LRB5 and 6 is quite good for Lizards in that if a load of skinks die then you can get free journeymen (skinks) to take you back up to 11 for the next match
Mightypeon



Joined: Jan 13, 2009

Post   Posted: Jan 09, 2010 - 18:24 Reply with quote Back to top

Hmm, the thing imho missing are tactics on offense on how to deal with people trying to mark your Saurus Ball Carrier (preferably with annoying Sidestep DT Blodge Buggers). In the case, the Lizard player has to be highly vigilant to execute proper Chainpushes, since that overrules the nasty Sidestep on the Diving Tackler.
Also, he should bear in mind that Diving Tackle does not work against Break Tackle, which could even lead to a highly amusing foul with some luck.

Concerning the ideal number of players while developing: I must say I kinda changed my earlier assessment, for Lizards, the magic number seems to be 12 + how many DP Skinks you have.
If your DPs didnt get send off, you clearly didnt foul enough.

I also seem to have a different way of skilling up the Sauri.
When starting a new team, the first 2 Sauri get Block, later trying to get Tackle as a 2nd.
I would skill one Saurus with Break Tackle first early, he can become a quite decent ball carrier on offense (meaning he gets Block soon) and can threaten the ball better on defense, he basically adds another weapon to your early game arsenal.

If the team is well developed, getting Mighty Blow first (actually, you can go for that even if the team is not well developed, Mighty Blow Sauri are quite nasty to S3 AV8 non dodgers) can have significant benefits, as you will have the rerolls to prevent him from causing turnovers, while Block wouldnt be as helpfull since everyone and his mother has Block anyway.

Mid term, you want 2 Tackles, 2 Guards, 2 Break Tackles (preferably on the Tackles), Block on everyone and as much MB as you can get your hands on.

Concering Skinks: They may be the only players where keeping a developed (This means Stats/Doubles, if they dont have stats/doubles they should be fired/executed/court martialed) Niggler may be worth it, provided he is truely awesome.
This lady for example:
http://www.fumbbl.com/FUMBBL.php?page=player&player_id=7192383
Will not be fired, having her in roughly 4.8 out of 6 games is much more awesome than having less TR in my book.

Re: 1 Reroll start build
With one reroll they basically play like ogres (an improved version, you have much better odds at getting MVPs where you want them). And one can have significant amounts of fun with Ogres too ;D


Sidestep on Sauri can be very amusing.
I would even go Sidetep on a Frenzy Saurus on a double.
WindexChugger



Joined: Oct 06, 2008

Post   Posted: Jan 09, 2010 - 18:27 Reply with quote Back to top

Doowa wrote:
Well written guide WC Smile

One thing I feel this guide is missing under "skills" is an alternative section. A section where you comment on the alternative choice like Guard for Skinks or SS on a Saurus. (A gaurding skink can be evil when combined with a fellow skink friend to break a cage. It's alternative and I wouldn't recommend the skill choice over Block or DP, but you never know where those doubles end up Smile) As you mention a Saurus is much like a BoB. A lot of ppl have succes/fun with SS on BoBs and I've found it pretty fun on Sauruses as well. Personally, I'm a sucker for SF, but SS sure is fun and annoying for your opponent, hehe

I have 1 other comment. You argue about making a saurus your ball carrier and picking up the ball with him, but you never mention taking Sure Hands in the skill section. Wouldn't that make sense with your strategy?


Perhabs I'll write a reply with my ideas about choosing skills and development another day Wink

Ps. have you seen DrDiscoStu's blogs about lizardmen?


This post is all about my way of doing things. I've never tried a Guard Skink; I think either DP or Block are preferrable. There may be times when you would want a Gaurd Skink (I can only think in a tournament where you'll need some Guard in the next game or two) but I don't think it's worth it in regular play. I've heard of Side Stepping Sauri, but have no experience with them; so they're not included here. I would like to try out SS on a Saurus, but I would probably take Dodge first.

My strategy with a Saurus ball handler isn't to have one ball handler. If this was the case, I may be more for a +AG Saurus. The way I do it is, who ever needs the SPP gets the ball. I usually have a few under skilled Sauri on the team who are eager to get their first or second (sometimes third) skill.

A quick response to this is: what about when you're playing Leap + Strip Ball? In that case, Sure Hands would be nice. But when you're playing elves or skaven, who often have a AG5 or sometimes AG6 player, one failed pickup could easily end your chances at scoring.


I have not seen those blog posts! I quickly glanced over them just now, and it looks like DrDiscoStu and I have similar views.

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WindexChugger



Joined: Oct 06, 2008

Post   Posted: Jan 09, 2010 - 18:38 Reply with quote Back to top

Mightypeon wrote:
Hmm, the thing imho missing are tactics on offense on how to deal with people trying to mark your Saurus Ball Carrier (preferably with annoying Sidestep DT Blodge Buggers). In the case, the Lizard player has to be highly vigilant to execute proper Chainpushes, since that overrules the nasty Sidestep on the Diving Tackler.
Also, he should bear in mind that Diving Tackle does not work against Break Tackle, which could even lead to a highly amusing foul with some luck.


This is where a good cage helps. Like I've said earlier, you want the game to be in one tight group of players. That way your Strength and Guard can over power your opponents. This means that a tight cage won't be so bad. Either your opponent won't even try for the ball, or they'll get stuck in a massive battle.

Unfortunately, sometimes the cage breaks open and a player marks your Ball Carrier. Usually, you can just blitz away players who mark your BC, or use Skinks to set up chain pushes to free the BC. By the time you're playing vs Blodge, SS, DT players, you should have a nice Tackle blitzer. Use Skinks to try and make it so that he has to SS away from the BC. Once in position, hit him.

I'll update my 'offense' section with this + visuals later.

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