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RedDevilCG



Joined: Jan 09, 2010

Post   Posted: Aug 11, 2010 - 03:03 Reply with quote Back to top

freak_in_a_frock wrote:
If you wouldn't want to risk to 1 in 6 chance of being sent off on the injury roll, then way bother fouling in the first place? Seems strange you would only carry it through if you got that +1 to injury.


This doesn't make sense. We are talking about using DP if you already have sneaky git, so obviously we want to foul or we would have never taken the skills in the first place.

The option to not carry through has little to do with the +1 and lots to do with getting sent off. You get sent off for a double on either the armour or injury roll. Sneaky Git allows a double for armour to be ignored if it doesn't break the armour, so you can see why it would be to your advantage to not use DP if you rolled 4/4 against AV8, but would use it if you rolled 5/3 against AV8.
PainState



Joined: Apr 04, 2007

Post   Posted: Aug 11, 2010 - 03:43 Reply with quote Back to top

SeraphimRed wrote:
We almost had a fouling thread... but try as you might, you can't escape the pull of the LRB5 client. Wink


I tried but failed in the end.

The discussion of +1..to use or not to use in the new client was to much of a "pull" for the viewing audience.

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Mr_Foulscumm



Joined: Mar 05, 2005

Post   Posted: Aug 11, 2010 - 04:54 Reply with quote Back to top

Such a shame we couldn't use the BOTOCS client here... it's so awesome Sad

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PainState



Joined: Apr 04, 2007

Post   Posted: Aug 11, 2010 - 05:31 Reply with quote Back to top

Mr_Foulscumm wrote:
Such a shame we couldn't use the BOTOCS client here... it's so awesome Sad


Wait a minute!!! Is foulscumm giving me a shameless pile on move with the BOTOCS client in order to maybe bring this thread back to life?

Nope...it just died again.

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Koigokoro



Joined: Sep 29, 2005

Post   Posted: Aug 11, 2010 - 06:54 Reply with quote Back to top

RedDevilCG wrote:
freak_in_a_frock wrote:
If you wouldn't want to risk to 1 in 6 chance of being sent off on the injury roll, then way bother fouling in the first place? Seems strange you would only carry it through if you got that +1 to injury.


This doesn't make sense. We are talking about using DP if you already have sneaky git, so obviously we want to foul or we would have never taken the skills in the first place.

The option to not carry through has little to do with the +1 and lots to do with getting sent off. You get sent off for a double on either the armour or injury roll. Sneaky Git allows a double for armour to be ignored if it doesn't break the armour, so you can see why it would be to your advantage to not use DP if you rolled 4/4 against AV8, but would use it if you rolled 5/3 against AV8.


If you're using the DP+SG guy to foul about just anything(which is chancewise now ok thing to do), then you obviously won't take the 100% eviction chance against 10/36 chance of getting your opponent atleast KO'd. This in the case of 3+3, 4+4 and 5+5.

And if the guy being fouled is not the most heinous Jump Up killer it's more than ok to mark him for the next turn with the fouler.


If you're stuck with the idea that it's only worth to make perfect autobreak fouls against most dangerous opponents, you don't need Sneaky Git.
RedDevilCG



Joined: Jan 09, 2010

Post   Posted: Aug 11, 2010 - 07:05 Reply with quote Back to top

Why do I get the feeling there are three different arguments going on now, or that we're arguing the same side?
Louky



Joined: Dec 29, 2003

Post   Posted: Aug 11, 2010 - 14:21 Reply with quote Back to top

PainState wrote:
SeraphimRed wrote:
We almost had a fouling thread... but try as you might, you can't escape the pull of the LRB5 client. Wink
I tried but failed in the end.


I made my point earlier so I'll give you a hand here Smile
For effective trolling, you've got to stick to basics :

I mean fouling your legendary player in T16 is normal,
you need to kill stuff, it's called BLOODbowl people !
Carnis



Joined: Feb 03, 2009

Post   Posted: Aug 12, 2010 - 16:59 Reply with quote Back to top

Rijssiej wrote:
What I would like to see added to the tables:
DP not using it on armor unless we rolled a double on armour.
DP+SG never use DP on armour.

The assumptions in my stats were:

no skill: no assumptions

DP: Use dp on armour if needed, use dp on injury.
Logic: By not using DP on armor, you can only reduce your chance of causing an injury, whilst your chance to get sent of decreases only slightly (to the level of no skill). The chance of a knockout or worse, if you get to roll injury with DP used is 41,6% (15/36), which is much more than your chance of being sent off 18% (1/6), assuming no doubles on the first roll.

Sneaky git: No assumptions, always use SNG if it prevents being sent off.

SN+DP: Always used DP, except on double armor rolls that would cause you to be sent off.
Logic: The odds of causing a knockout or worse when rolling injury are still only 41,7% without DP available. Most of the time this is not worth the 100% chance of losing your DP. With a lot of bribes however, even this can be worth it late in the game.

Now the weakness in these stats is the lack of thick skull, but generally the odds of being sent out while fouling TS players is the same but the chance of causing a knockout are about halved.. The exact stats are easy to calculate, but take a lot of space, so I left them out.

For an AV6/thick skull fouled with DP/SN it would be about 28% of KO or worse, (instead of 39% without TS), with 18% of the injuries still being CAS.
Grod



Joined: Sep 30, 2003

Post   Posted: Aug 12, 2010 - 17:24 Reply with quote Back to top

I just wanted to add a (slightly) useful (and perhaps obvious to some) idea to fouling in LRB 5/6:

It is a good idea to foul with players that have the "Secret Weapon" skill, because these players will be banned at the end of that drive in any case. Moreover, as the final turn of a drive is approaching, it makes sense to foul indiscriminately with "Secret Weapon" players, if they are not particularly necessary in some other capacity on the field.

So don't let that Dwarf Deathroller leave the field at the end of a drive without getting some fouls in!

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James_Probert



Joined: Nov 25, 2007

Post   Posted: Aug 12, 2010 - 17:26 Reply with quote Back to top

Grod wrote:
So don't let that Dwarf Deathroller leave the field at the end of a drive without getting some fouls in!


unless you have a bribe ofc... Wink

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