| Poll |
| Based on the team downgrades options (see pg 2), how far does this team have to go to become balanced? |
| None! This team is fine as is! |
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35% |
[ 14 ] |
| #1 Just dump one of the big guys, then you're golden |
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7% |
[ 3 ] |
| #2 Drop ST on all those Tinkers as well |
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5% |
[ 2 ] |
| #3 All the gnomes were too strong, ST1 throughout! |
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7% |
[ 3 ] |
| #4 ST1 gnomes AND ST2 Constructs is the ticket |
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7% |
[ 3 ] |
| #5 Doesn't matter what you do, this team sucks and I hates them |
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35% |
[ 14 ] |
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| Total Votes : 39 |
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harvestmouse
Joined: May 13, 2007
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 Posted:
Jan 15, 2015 - 17:15 |
 
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| mister__joshua wrote: | | harvestmouse wrote: | | So they are the masters of illusion spells, this is their warhammer niche. I'm using a translated roster, and they're doing really well. Replicating illusion spells isn't easy though and it isn't working perfectly. |
I wasn't aware of Warhammer Gnome fluff, but this sounds very much like D&D Gnomes as opposed to the more recent WoW Gnomes. I prefer the D&D ones. You've also given me an idea for a mass hypno gaze team!  |
Well very early Warhammer was a D&D ripoff, and for good reason.
A little bit of a history lesson. GW were originally a game importing company, and they had the rights to sell D&D in the UK. Alongside GW were citadel. Citadel quickly became the number one figure company.
Their early lines and what they and GW pushed for, was to add figures to your roleplaying. They eventually pushed this idea further with Quest and Talisman. After a while they had a fair range of fantasy figures. There were a couple of historic (or semi historic) lines (why we have Norse now), but mainly the figures for D&D.
With a change of ownership (the man behind citadel taking over the whole shebang) they started to work on changing the company. If you look at White Dwarfs from issues 60-90 you can see a massive revamp in the company. The main aim was to make better use of the figure line, roleplayers were never going to buy many figures, and were unpopular with many. So they hit on the idea of making a game to evolve around the figures they already had aka Warhammer. As the figures they had were mostly sculpted for D&D, early Warhammer world was pretty much a rip off, of the D&D world. There was a large range of 'solid base' gnomes, so these would have been D&D figures, so the fluff would have matched. |
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harvestmouse
Joined: May 13, 2007
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| Posted:
Jan 15, 2015 - 17:21 |
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mister__joshua
Joined: Jun 20, 2007
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Is the middle picture Warmaster gnomes? I played Warmaster with cut up cereal boxes instead of figures
I am vaguely aware of GWs origins, though it happened before my time. I always found it somewhat ironic that a company started by ripping off another franchise protects it's IP so fiercely. |
_________________
"Yeah, well, you know, that's just, like, your opinion, man." - The Dude
Mr. J's LRB7 / Forum |
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harvestmouse
Joined: May 13, 2007
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| Posted:
Jan 15, 2015 - 17:47 |
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No, not Warmaster, probably a bit big for Warmaster (Warhamster plays at 10mm). Warmaster is just rulepack for small figure fantasy large battles (and not a particularly good one at that).
These figures are 15mm, which is the most popular scale for Mighty Armies, Demonworld, Hordes of Things (and my choice) Chipco fantasy battle. There are many companies making figures at this scale. These are by 'Peter Pig'.
The best thing about this scale is the price; half the scale but 1/10th of the price in a lot of cases. Even 20mm, works out dead cheap, and is the best scale for large battle IMO. |
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Craftnburn
Joined: Jul 29, 2005
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| Posted:
Jan 15, 2015 - 18:32 |
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Ignoring the (pretty significant) divergence into gaming history...
I think referring to the Constructs as "Mechavermin" is a misnomer. There are some similarities (St 3 AV 10) but a number of differences (No MB+SF, and Loner+RS makes them far less good).
Why wouldn't you take E access on a doubles? A Saw or Bomb that doesn't get sent off? (I suppose you could take Secret Weapon on a second doubles if you were a masochist  ), but I could also see people taking TTM, or even Stunty (once you have some Blitzing skills).
The point is that it opens up a huge range of possibilities... |
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harvestmouse
Joined: May 13, 2007
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| Posted:
Jan 15, 2015 - 20:08 |
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I made the assumption that the secret weapon came with it, specialist SW rolls is one of Stunty div's party tricks after all. Without an SW roll....well.....as I said, I don't see the roster as viable and I don't want to get involved.
I do like the 'E' idea. However, I think the idea needs some polishing. |
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Craftnburn
Joined: Jul 29, 2005
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| Posted:
Jan 15, 2015 - 22:12 |
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Yes, I considered what to do about SW. I thought that since the Constructs were already limited with Loner and RS that SW as well would be too much. I suppose a blanket SW (say 10+) just for "looking artificial" could be added (so that they don't become too powerful), but then I'd probably advocate for removing Loner, especially since RS is meant to reflect being "operated" by a teammate.
I mostly added the idea onto this team proposal because the core fits best with the "modular" idea. I don't think it's too bad to have 2 Gnome teams (how many goblin teams are there?) especially since this one really plays quite different than the other. |
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harvestmouse
Joined: May 13, 2007
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| Posted:
Jan 15, 2015 - 22:25 |
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Goblins and Halflings are why the division exists. They are the staple of small races. There is a whole host of background, fluff, reference and types of goblins to choose from.
Where as there isn't that much on Gnomes or there are many types. On top of this, how we are using Gnomes isn't really fitting to their portrayal in the Warhammer World. More akin to WoW as mentioned before.
So, do we really need 2 teams of a race, that isn't very common, isn't portrayed in the Warhammer way and contains 2 similar themes, i.e. mechanical constructions.
I don't have a problem with the team we have, but they are problematic at high TV. This one though just adds to the problems. I don't think there's a place for the current mecha vermin, and you're adding 4 (we don't agree that they are mech vermin). You have 5 GS access players. This is 5 blockle mbers plus a really sturdy lineman.
Personally I'd like to ban blockle mb. I certainly wouldn't allow any player to be able to get the set on regular rolls. Particularly an av 10er. You've given them 4! Plus another reliable one for blitzing.
I dislike the theme, balance, portrayal of the race, units, the whole shebang. For me a defo no to this roster, but it's not my cheese boat. |
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Craftnburn
Joined: Jul 29, 2005
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| Posted:
Jan 16, 2015 - 00:01 |
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If we strictly go by what stunty races are "proportionally underrepresented" then we're really left with very little reason to even have a new team, yet one is being considered. Furthermore, despite their scarcity in the Warhammer world, they likely outnumber Wizards, Zapped Frogs, and Phantasms (nothing against those rosters individually mind you). I think playstyle and novelty are a far better reason to consider or reject a new team than the relative populations of a fantasy creatures in a fantasy world.
Mind you if you don't like the roster, well that's up to you. No worries. |
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harvestmouse
Joined: May 13, 2007
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| Posted:
Jan 16, 2015 - 00:55 |
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That's why I'm championing Bray, Familiars and Moulder. However, I'd also like to see a new concept come in (like the E access).
I have a concept idea with the 'E' style access. It's something I've though about before. I think there's better ideas though. I feel we really need minotaurs or/and rat ogres in the division. |
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Craftnburn
Joined: Jul 29, 2005
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| Posted:
Jan 16, 2015 - 04:19 |
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Well I think Familiars aren't worth much effort (also, surely there are more Gnomes around than wizards' familiars )
Obviously I'm ok, with the Brays. Moulder has potential, but definitely plenty of Rats already (not that I'm totally against them though). |
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harvestmouse
Joined: May 13, 2007
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| Posted:
Jan 16, 2015 - 09:40 |
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Well Familiars had a figure line. Historically this has been the theme of adding rosters. I also think there's a lot of scope for the basic players (they don't have to be tied to anything or can take a cool playing idea from another idea).
I'm also really liking my ideas of the big guys and special weapon. As a player in the late 80s I really miss this period, it was a golden time. So to bring back some of that feel would be cool. I think they'd work very well too.
Unfortunately I think you're right and we're all feeling the same about the rats. Unfortunately unfortunately Moulder would be the best rat theme for stunty. I'm not really sure why it wasn't done originally over the other 2 rat teams. |
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