| Poll |
| Why the Hate? |
| +40 TV is huge man |
|
18% |
[ 28 ] |
| -1 AV, Cant have that, no way, no how. |
|
22% |
[ 34 ] |
| I just dont like the gimmick of stab, I cant use my custom block dice |
|
12% |
[ 19 ] |
| No hate here, all love |
|
28% |
[ 42 ] |
| Does a dagger purchase come with a free pie? |
|
18% |
[ 27 ] |
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| Total Votes : 150 |
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PainState
Joined: Apr 04, 2007
Location: Dallas, TEXAS
|
 Posted:
Apr 27, 2012 - 20:51 |
 
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Here is how I see it for the DE Assasin.
You get a DE lino with two skills for 20TV.
You lose 1 pt of armor.
Shadowing is not great but it is annoying for your opponeet.
Stab...Well it is a free block, no block dice rolled and you get a free armor check. So it is better than a player with out stab, the non stab guy needs to succesfully block to get the armor check. You do lose push backs though, although you cant double skull a stab. So the Stab skill is better than blocking.
So you get 2 assassins for +40K over two linos, small cost with some upside.
They are not SPP hogs. So when they die they are easy to replace.
So why do the majority of coaches poo po the assassin as some gimmick. IMO he has some nice upside for little cost. |
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WoC is in main draw...BLOOD!!!
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Last edited by PainState on Feb 01, 2013 - 18:33; edited 2 times in total |
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RedDevilCG
Joined: Jan 09, 2010
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| Posted:
Apr 27, 2012 - 20:54 |
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The hard to block players also tend to be well armoured. You can't push after a stab. |
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uzkulak
Joined: Mar 30, 2004
Location: Sunderland
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| Posted:
Apr 27, 2012 - 21:00 |
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Also, DE can get 8 other positionals. Who is going on the front line? |
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Shraaaag
Joined: Feb 15, 2004
Location: Trondheim, Norway
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| Posted:
Apr 27, 2012 - 21:01 |
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Too many av7 already for my taste. I have on a couple of occasions successfully used stab, but it's usually a desperate attempt on players I can't manage a 2db block. I don't think my assassins have managed to shadow anyone yet, mostly because they're easy target with av7 and no block or dodge (ie. takes too long to skill up). |
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Nelphine
Joined: Apr 01, 2011
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| Posted:
Apr 27, 2012 - 21:17 |
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Painstate my reasoning is this:
If Stab is unreliable in Stunty Leeg, where AV 7 is awesomely high... then how much worse will it be in regular games where AV 8 is the norm, and AV 9 is common? Since stab can ONLY be used for damage causing, and never positioning, and it's going to be near useless, then stab = useless, and I'd much rather just block.
As for shadowing: I just played against dark elves with elves. My catcher was KO'd almost the whole game, my blitzers were never near the assassin. He attempted to shadow me 5 times; he succeeded once. Thus, it's a skill that worked (against MA 6), 20% of the time. Now that may have been a fluke; but it still happened in a random game, so it wasn't reliable enough to base a strategy on, and therefore not reliable enough to waste time actually investing in. And if I'm faster, it works even less. If I'm slower, I'm probably either a dwarf (which he doesn't want to be next to), or S4+ (which he doesn't want to be next to.) So Shadowing on an MA 6, AV 7 guy = useless.
So for me, an assassin is a lino with AV 7 and 2 useless skills. If he cost 70k, I would buy him for coolness. If he cost 60k, I would think he was fairly priced compared to a lino, and perhaps buy 2, although perhaps not. Any more, and he's a waste of money. |
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Emeyin
Joined: Apr 14, 2008
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| Posted:
Apr 27, 2012 - 21:32 |
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Make him AV8 and I might actually buy one. |
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Lill-Leif
Joined: Nov 17, 2005
Location: Kramfors, Sweden
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| Posted:
Apr 27, 2012 - 21:33 |
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You stab my orc. Nothing happens. Next turn, my orc pomb you, you die. |
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Overhamsteren
Joined: May 27, 2006
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| Posted:
Apr 27, 2012 - 21:35 |
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Having an elf with blodge, sidestep and diving tackle is good, now an assassin need 20 more spp than a with elf or blitzer to get there and until he gets there he is probably a lot worse than them but once you get there stab is pretty cool.
Would be nice if he was MA7 and 100k, would make him a lot better for scoring and shadowing. |
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Like a Tiger Defying the Laws of Gravity |
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dode74
Joined: Aug 14, 2009
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| Posted:
Apr 27, 2012 - 21:44 |
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| Overhamsteren wrote: | | Would be nice if he was MA7 and 100k, would make him a lot better for scoring and shadowing. |
+1 |
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Nelphine
Joined: Apr 01, 2011
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| Posted:
Apr 27, 2012 - 21:53 |
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If he was MA 7, and he was 90k I would consider it reasonable. |
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uzkulak
Joined: Mar 30, 2004
Location: Sunderland
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| Posted:
Apr 27, 2012 - 22:21 |
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SO, with the assassin(s)?
"Complete" DE team
4 Blitzers
2 WE
1 Runner
2 Assassins
4 Line-elf.
Really? |
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gpope
Joined: Jun 04, 2010
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| Posted:
Apr 27, 2012 - 22:54 |
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Calling stab "better than blocking" is a bit of an exaggeration. It does have some sweet, sweet upsides though--you never need to worry about assists, and it doesn't matter what skills you or your opponent has. Way easier to stab an AV7 blodger down than it is to block them, especially if they have +ST or lots of guard around them. You also get a free armor roll against the enemy's line fodder every time you receive, which can't be overlooked--it's like the elf version of piling on.
The main problem is that assassins don't level up very easily for an elf positional, and there are a lot of skills they really, really want. |
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SvenS
Joined: Jul 07, 2007
Location: Göteborg Sweden
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| Posted:
Apr 27, 2012 - 23:02 |
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PainState
Joined: Apr 04, 2007
Location: Dallas, TEXAS
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| Posted:
Apr 27, 2012 - 23:08 |
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| gpope wrote: | | Calling stab "better than blocking" is a bit of an exaggeration. It does have some sweet, sweet upsides though |
anything that has sweet, sweet upside is not an exaggeration. Maybe equal, maybe if factor in the situational benefits of a push back it might be a push.
But anything that has sweet, sweet upside is at minimum equal.
I would say PO has sweet, sweet upside. IF I ignore the situational scenarios when PO is not so hot and can really hurt you in the postional/situational part of the game.
In the OP I do ignore all 197 situations when a push back is better than no push back. I only look at the first sequence of events, the block. Stab = No block, just armor check. Which makes it better than blocking if you ignore said 197 possible push back scenarios and skull possibilities. |
_________________
GLT is kicking off!!!
WoC is in main draw...BLOOD!!!
Specs are loving it right now. |
|
gpope
Joined: Jun 04, 2010
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| Posted:
Apr 27, 2012 - 23:27 |
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| PainState wrote: | | But anything that has sweet, sweet upside is at minimum equal. |
Not if you bother applying the slightest bit of critical thinking. Saying "there is an advantage to doing this sometimes, therefore it is at minimum equal" is silly. If you buy a lottery ticket there is an enormous situational upside--but investing in lottery tickets is still, on balance, a really terrible use of your money.
Stab is nice, but most of the time blocks get you enough armor rolls that the advantage of stab isn't really that big. Stab only really shows its worth in situations where it's hard to knock someone down--which are often just bad situations in general that are just going to end with your assassin going splat anyhow.
They're still nice, but they're a luxury that's often hard to justify. |
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