Smeat
Joined: Nov 19, 2006
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Mar 19, 2014 - 09:15 |
 
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The plasmoid .pdf on Slann recommends that most, or even all Slann linos take Wrestle over Block.
The idea is that this "creates space" that the leapers can then exploit. The problem I see is that, on offense, if you don't score that turn it also "creates space" for the defense to exploit against you.
(The .pdf has a rating of only 2.5 out of 5 - but also only 1 person has bothered to rate it, so that may or may not be significant.)
The whole recommendation sounds questionable to me, but then again I don't run Slann, and I can appreciate that they might not follow the "normal" rule of thumb of getting a (small?) core of Blockers first, then skilling (some) Wrestlers for the defensive LoS.
Any Slann coaches out there able to clear this up, explain the logic of wrestle over block for Slann?
tia! |
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Relezite
Joined: May 21, 2007
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Mar 19, 2014 - 09:23 |
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It is time to perform the Happygrue summoning ritual. Fetch me a bottle of shoe polish and a VHS copy of Robocop and don't ask any questions. |
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NickNutria
Joined: Jul 25, 2006
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Mar 19, 2014 - 09:27 |
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I recommend block for Slann linos and wrestle for Slann blitzers. Why? Because with jump up on all of your blitzers you don't loose MA when you wrestle someone down. |
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Garion
Joined: Aug 19, 2009
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Mar 19, 2014 - 09:37 |
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The playbook is correct on that point at least. You want wrestle on the majority of the linos imo, basically all that don't get guard on doubles first. You want a team full of players capable of popping that ball free, wrestle is better than block for this. You don't want wrestle on your blitzers, the linemen leap on the same roll anyway, the blitzers want blodge guard side step or block, tackle, mb, po. Once they reach those skill they will finally be worth their price. As JU has synergy with PO and JU + dt also combine nicely with blodge ss dt.
I also don't see how wrestle creates space for your opponent to exploit , as both players go down and you have a fast and mobile team and all teams of this ilk benefit from both teams having a number of prone players. |
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The_Murker
Joined: Jan 30, 2011
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Mar 19, 2014 - 10:31 |
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Just taking a wag at it, cause I'm not at work yet..
I bet it applies more to Defense than Offense. As Slann seem fairly breakable, Wrestle removes some damage taken from secondary blocks, while maxing Wrestle means almost anyone on the pitch can leap into a cage and Wrestle down a ball carrier to be scooped by a waiting catcher. |
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Garion
Joined: Aug 19, 2009
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Mar 19, 2014 - 10:39 |
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| The_Murker wrote: | Just taking a wag at it, cause I'm not at work yet..
I bet it applies more to Defense than Offense. As Slann seem fairly breakable, Wrestle removes some damage taken from secondary blocks, while maxing Wrestle means almost anyone on the pitch can leap into a cage and Wrestle down a ball carrier to be scooped by a waiting catcher. |
exactly this.
Also bear in mind, if you play with 4 catchers and 2 blitzers like the slaan teams of 2nd edition, then you will likely have 5 of these players with block anyway, maybe 6, and a kroxigor which only leaves 4 linemen on the pitch at anyone time and 4 wrestle isn't much to work with tbh, but yeah get the linemen wrestle and tackle, or wrestle and strip ball. You don't want to be leaping to to cages with your uber expensive positionals anyway. |
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Smeat
Joined: Nov 19, 2006
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Mar 19, 2014 - 11:15 |
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| Garion wrote: | | I also don't see how wrestle creates space for your opponent to exploit... |
You don't see how using wrestle on offense causes loss of TZ's, and so offers no barrier (beyond the down player) for the opponent? Not sure how to respond to that. 
| The_Murker wrote: | | I bet it applies more to Defense than Offense. |
That would make sense - a lightning (okay, 2 turn) TD on offense that doesn't rely much on caging/screening, followed by a harassing defense constantly threatening a defensive steal.
And if there are only a few linos on the field, that keeps the # of wrestlers to a minimum. |
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Let's go A.P.E.!
(...and what exactly do you think they do with all those dead players?...) |
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Garion
Joined: Aug 19, 2009
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Mar 19, 2014 - 11:33 |
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| Smeat wrote: | | Garion wrote: | | I also don't see how wrestle creates space for your opponent to exploit... |
You don't see how using wrestle on offence causes loss of TZ's, and so offers no barrier (beyond the down player) for the opponent? Not sure how to respond to that.
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Not really no. Because you and your opponent are going prone providing you don't roll anything other than both downs. If you want to man mark the player select push back if that is the other option, or don't block.
If you only have the choice of both down, then yeah you both go down, but that's fine, as I said - Slaan are a fast mobile team, it is still easy to protect your ball carrier with your remaining players, or keep them out of reach with their high Ma. The important part is putting your opponents players prone so that their positioning is restricted which is especially useful when playing slow bash teams of which there are many.
The linemen arent the players you will be protecting the ball carrier with. They are just there to annoy people and get hit, your blitzers with blodge, Guard, SS will screen and tie players up, along side the kroxigor. The Catcher will be the ball carrier supported by a further 2 or 3 catchers forming a second screen.
Wrestle prevents you getting blocked repeatedly when it is your oppositions turn, it poses a threat to their ball carrier at all times which can be tough to play against. Further more when blocking with wrestle players anything that increases the chances of putting the oppositions players on the ground is a good thing more often than not as it gives you more freedom to move around the pitch.
The negatives to Wrestle are - Juggernaut cancels it (though hardly anyone uses Jugs so that's nothing to worry about), and if you are blocking a rookie player it would be more beneficial to have block so you can attempt to roll for injury.
But you have to build with the future in mind in bloodbowl, at high tv most players should have block or wrestle anyway which is when it becomes more useful. |
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SvenS
Joined: Jul 07, 2007
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Mar 19, 2014 - 11:45 |
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They are ideal ball poppers with wrestle then strip.
Blitzers have to many roles to fill to do that. |
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the_Sage
Joined: Jan 13, 2011
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Mar 19, 2014 - 12:03 |
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| SvenS wrote: | They are ideal ball poppers with wrestle then strip.
Blitzers have to many roles to fill to do that. |
This. I agree with the playbook and the crowd here on wrestle. Having 1 with wrestle tackle (against the blodge sh guys) and 1 with wrestle strip is awesome (or you have one like this). And the rest just drag the opponent down with them.
While wrestle seems nice with jump up, I prefer block with my diving tackle, as well as with my pomb, so no wrestle on the blitzers for me. |
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Rabe
Joined: Jun 06, 2009
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Mar 19, 2014 - 13:40 |
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Great thread - just as I'm about to start playing Slann. 
So... the playbook is not recommendable? |
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Garion
Joined: Aug 19, 2009
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Mar 19, 2014 - 13:50 |
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Im not sure I havent read it, but really everything you need to know has been said by SvenS, the murker, The Sage and my self. Anything else is just bloodbowl basics really. |
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happygrue
Joined: Oct 15, 2010
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Mar 19, 2014 - 14:04 |
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| Rabe wrote: | Great thread - just as I'm about to start playing Slann.
So... the playbook is not recommendable? |
It depends on the style of Slann you want to play. I read that playbook when I was starting out and thought "well, I'm never going to play them like that!" and thus I found it unhelpful. Depending on how you want to play them it might have some good pointers for that. The advice Garion points to here is solid though. I'd add one thing about block and linos: Block can work okay at lower TV, but at higher TV I don't like having more than 1-2 block linos and wrestle on the rest. Block is really nice if you have guard on him too, but in most cases I like Wrestle better on the linos. |
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DrPoods
Joined: Nov 14, 2013
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Mar 19, 2014 - 14:45 |
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This is getting to be a popular thread Smeat!  |
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babass
Joined: Apr 20, 2013
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Mar 19, 2014 - 16:14 |
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| NickNutria wrote: | | I recommend block for Slann linos and wrestle for Slann blitzers. Why? Because with jump up on all of your blitzers you don't loose MA when you wrestle someone down. |
i recommand no blizter for slanns: they are too expansive  |
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