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How do you read diving tackle?
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Poll
How do you read diving tackle?
No matter what the dodger rolls, DT should be prone
38%
 38%  [ 13 ]
Only if the dodger is brought down, DT should be prone
5%
 5%  [ 2 ]
Only if the dodger is brought down, DT should be prone, but if RR/dodge allows the dodger to succeed, DT is still prone
14%
 14%  [ 5 ]
Only if the dodger is brought down because of the -2, DT should be prone
2%
 2%  [ 1 ]
Only if the dodger is brought down because of the -2, DT should be prone, but if RR/dodge allows the dodger to succeed, DT is still prone
38%
 38%  [ 13 ]
Total Votes : 34


DrDiscoStu



Joined: Feb 20, 2006
Post   Posted: Jun 17, 2014 - 04:55 Reply with quote Back to top
I am not a fan of the way the client does it, but the rules are very vague. I am just curious if people agree with how it does it, or not.

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JackassRampant



Joined: Feb 26, 2011
Post   Posted: Jun 17, 2014 - 05:02 Reply with quote Back to top
If the moving player makes his Dodge roll by 1 or 2, the Diving Tackle player may go prone and apply the -2 penalty. If this is re-rolled, he's still prone. The client has it right.

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Kryten



Joined: Sep 02, 2003
Post   Posted: Jun 17, 2014 - 05:30
FUMBBL Staff
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You haven't included the correct version of the rule in the poll.

The DT may go prone to subtract 2 from the dodger's roll.

It is as simple as that.
xnoelx



Joined: Jun 05, 2012
Post   Posted: Jun 17, 2014 - 05:41 Reply with quote Back to top
No vagueness at all. If you choose to use DT, then once the dodge is resolved (regardless of success or failure: that's not vagueness, it's because it is irrelevant) the DT player is placed prone. Are you reading an older version of the rules?

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Garion



Joined: Aug 19, 2009
Post   Posted: Jun 17, 2014 - 08:05 Reply with quote Back to top
The client handles it in exatly the right way.

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Smeat



Joined: Nov 19, 2006
Post   Posted: Jun 17, 2014 - 08:24 Reply with quote Back to top
+1

I'll be the first to agree that some parts of the rules are clear as mud, but this one... the DT declares, the dodge is resolved, the DT goes prone - simple.

Exactly what part of that rule do you consider "vague" (let alone "very vague")?

(Your poll questions are a bloody mess, btw!) Rolling Eyes

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Relezite



Joined: May 21, 2007
Post   Posted: Jun 17, 2014 - 08:30 Reply with quote Back to top
When I first started, I felt like DT was less intuitive because the player isn't going to wait and see how well his mark gets away before applying his superior tackle. I felt, and still feel really, that just asking the coach whether or not he wants to DT when the dodge is declared is more intuitive, but because DT is an underpowerful skill, the actual rules for it work just fine.
Garion



Joined: Aug 19, 2009
Post   Posted: Jun 17, 2014 - 09:13 Reply with quote Back to top
yeah if you had to use it prior to the dodge roll it would suck.

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Igvy



Joined: Apr 29, 2007
Post   Posted: Jun 17, 2014 - 09:37 Reply with quote Back to top
Smeat wrote:
+1

I'll be the first to agree that some parts of the rules are clear as mud, but this one... the DT declares, the dodge is resolved, the DT goes prone - simple.

Exactly what part of that rule do you consider "vague" (let alone "very vague")?

(Your poll questions are a bloody mess, btw!) Rolling Eyes


Agreed, this is one of the few cases where the rules go into detail.
Skill use is optional, if he chooses to use the skill he is prone. You can choose to use the skill after the dice is rolled.

Your poll makes it more confusing than needed tbh.
DrDiscoStu



Joined: Feb 20, 2006
Post   Posted: Jun 18, 2014 - 12:00 Reply with quote Back to top
Yeah okay sorry about the confusing poll

I really don't see why you would be prone after a successful reroll

I admit a few of those options are superfluous

But anyway - the whole point of rerolling is that you are taking that roll again. Things have 'reset' so to speak. If you are rerolling something why would there be affects from the first null roll lasting in the game?

I dispute the rules are clear about that too.

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Nextflux



Joined: Jan 22, 2008
Post   Posted: Jun 18, 2014 - 12:13 Reply with quote Back to top
A reroll is extra team training or good leadership (or in this case it might be a dodge reroll). In real sports there might be "rerolls" due to skill and training, that doesnt mean they first fail then succeed, they eather fail or succeed. same with game rerolls, the failed roll is ignored, so in my view the first roll should not be taken into consideration when deciding proneness, unless its the only roll.
same goes to a pass roll for example, you can miss first, then fumble. This doesnt mean the ball will end up as a missed throw instead of fumbled.
tmoila



Joined: Nov 25, 2012
Post   Posted: Jun 18, 2014 - 12:20 Reply with quote Back to top
Shadowing and diving tackle (on different players), how does that work? And I mean, you could use shadowing to vacate the square left by the dodging player and still use diving tackle. But that's silly because there can't be two players in the same square.

Shadowing isn't quite well clarified in the rules. Things like frenzy, chain-pushes, diving tackle.

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Garion



Joined: Aug 19, 2009
Post   Posted: Jun 18, 2014 - 12:32 Reply with quote Back to top
tmoila wrote:
Shadowing and diving tackle (on different players), how does that work? And I mean, you could use shadowing to vacate the square left by the dodging player and still use diving tackle. But that's silly because there can't be two players in the same square.

Shadowing isn't quite well clarified in the rules. Things like frenzy, chain-pushes, diving tackle.


diving tackle precedes the choice to use shadowing I believe.

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Mr_Foulscumm



Joined: Mar 05, 2005
Post   Posted: Jun 18, 2014 - 12:50 Reply with quote Back to top
DrDiscoStu wrote:
I really don't see why you would be prone after a successful reroll

But anyway - the whole point of rerolling is that you are taking that roll again. Things have 'reset' so to speak. If you are rerolling something why would there be affects from the first null roll lasting in the game?


Because, the player going prone (ie. Diving Tackle) is the reason that the ReRoll is used in the first place.


Dodge roll is made.
Coach decides to use DT since it will bring his opponent down.
Dodger rerolls to beat the DT score.

Now, if the DT is allowed to stay on his feet if the RR succeeds, he has just gotten the opponents RR at no actual cost to his positioning. Sounds fair? I think not Smile

edit: a RR isn't a reset button, it's a try that again button. But you try again with the current modifiers that lead you to make the RR in the first place. Of course, you could roll a 1, ReRoll and get DT'd, which is perfectly fine since the RR was made with the current modifiers and DT is applied after a given roll.

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xnoelx



Joined: Jun 05, 2012
Post   Posted: Jun 18, 2014 - 13:29 Reply with quote Back to top
Fluffwise, it also wouldn't make any sense for a player to use Diving Tackle and not have dived, whether he was successful in tackling his opponent to the ground or not.

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