mister__joshua
Joined: Jun 20, 2007
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It sounds fun but I imagine it would be quite hard to balance a team so that it wasn't either too weak at the beginning or too strong later on. Adding optional players to an all-lineman team with almost certainly increase it's power and potential. It's likely it'd just be a fun but non-competitive team for the first few games.
It does raise a bigger question though. In my initial proposal I left out resurrection mechanics as I knew they didn't work in stunty (based on Nurglings, and what I was told). When suggesting rosters is it best to stick with what we know is possible, or suggest the odd wild and crazy idea that may or may not be workable? I'd love a mechanic where a necromancer had to collect parts to build his creations from, but I never suggested such a thing as I didn't see how it would work. |
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harvestmouse
Joined: May 13, 2007
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Jan 05, 2015 - 14:51 |
 
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I seem to remember Christer saying that rot would raise a nurgling, however that could have been with the old client. I have to admit I'm not aware of how this is working with the Nurgling team. I see players do have Nurgles Rot.
I think it's worth looking into. I agree to some extent that if you had a player you couldn't buy, then you'll leaving a large grey area in where they will go with team development. However if it was a lineman but a little different that the standard lineman, I don't think it'd make much difference to the team. Stunty is after all about the stars and big guys, the little guys just make up the numbers and take the hits.
I think it's a good point about suggesting crazy stuff. This is stunty after all. I like to think up ways of using the client in new ways and we have positionals already that have skills to replicate another action (Gnoblar trappers as an example), so why not? I don't think there should be any limitations on craziness for suggestions. The stipulation really in my opinion is that it fits the fluff and background of what we already have, that I believe is important. But hey, I ain't the comish. |
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TheSyron
Joined: Jun 17, 2012
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Jan 05, 2015 - 14:59 |
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Whoo, what a gift!
Took the opportunity to look through all of the rosters listed here, and I must say that there are quite a lot of teams I'd be happy to see in stunty. It was hard choosing only 5. Ultimately I looked not only to how good the team is (balance, fluff) but also to what it would bring to the league (race, play style, novelty). For example, I don't think stunty league needs a fourth Goblin team and a third Halfling or Rat team would need to be very different from the two that are already there.
I did list them in the order I like them with some pro's and con's. Note that these aren't all equal, some con's are fairly insubstantial (like the renaming of the team, that's relatively easy). In the end I based my ranking on the idea & what kind of play style I'd like to see represented in Stunty, and slightly less on the quality of the roster design.
1. Halfling Carnies
Halfling: Ye ol' Flings molded into a passing team with severely injured Elves.
Play style: Mix between Pro Flings and Eshin. Good offence, terrible at staying alive.
Status: No icons done.
Pro:
+ Very unique play style despite being another Halfling team.
+ Brings a(nother) passing team to stunty, while not being capable of scoring all too often due to being a bit slow.
+ Positional type that isn't really found in stunty
+ Seems to be somewhere in the middle balance wise.
+ Despite being a non-bash team in stunty, it'll probably be competitive at higher TV
Con:
- Another Halfling team.
- Another non-bash team. Will people play this?
- Definitely needs another name.
The roster does need some tinkering (as all will). The thieves aren't very interesting and the runners might need a different skill now that there are Pro Halflings (although dump-off would be good on them). The Elves themselves are very good players, but fragile and slow. And it's the only thing the team has to have a chance. The rosters seems to me like an interesting mix between Eshin and Pro Flings.
Should there really be a 'ban' on another Halfling team for now, then there's always the possibility to change this into a new Fae team. That might be a bit too much work though, as it makes the balance completely different (S1 and all).
2. Nauticans
Fishmen: Fast fishmen and a sidestepping crab!
Play Style: Reliable and fast Lineman with big hand backed by bombs reward aggressive play and puts a lot of pressure on the opponent. Skinks with bombs, now that I think about it.
Status: Icons & Portraits done.
Pro:
- Unique theme, no other team really comes close to it save for Skink
- Very focused roster with only 2 positionals, but quality linemen
- Sidestepping Crab
- Done icons & portraits
Con:
- Might suffer the same problem as Skinks: strong team, but not so popular
- May need another name
I reckon the roster is quite powerful, but still balanced. The crab is a nice addition and the theme is well worked out. Big Hand all over the place is surprisingly good, especially when you're able to get the ball loose with bombs.
3. Bogeys
Undead: Wrestling Bogeymen
Play style: A team that relies on good positional play and annoying the opponent with some innate skills.
Satus: Some icons done.
Pro:
+ Unique Linemen
+ Some neat skills incorporated (Disturbing Presence, Leap, FA) while staying focused.
+ Solid Roster, nothing too fancy but differentiates itself well
+ Another Undead (or at least close enough) theme, with good fluff!
+ Will definitely get played a lot
Con:
- Wrestle lineman (wrodge with one skill) needs to be severely tested; especially on higher TV levels
- Positional names are a bit confusing
Another solid roster. This one is a bit more diverse and counters some teams (mainly those who rely on bombs and blockers). It also brings a new type of lineman to stunty, one that can reliably block! As it seems in the higher levels of stunty, this will get played a lot. Which isn't necessarily a bad thing.
4. Wizards
Human: Four Wizards, a Golem and a bunch of toads wander on a pitch...
Play style: The team has a lot of tricks up its sleeve but isn't a master at anything.
Status: No icons done.
Pro:
+ Weird playing style. A lot is possible any given turn.
+ Balanced. Despite having a lot of options, the roster is quite fragile.
+ This would only be the second human team (counting Pygmy as one).
Con:
- May need another name
- Might encounter problems at higher TV
Solid roster. Despite it being quite weird, I don't have much to say about it. I think it fits stunty very nicely and although I like the fluff & potential of Zapped more, I think that this roster, as it is now, is good, with the possibility to buff it up if it needs to be.
5. Troglodyte
Reptile: Strong loners who have to learn how to play together playing blood bowl to save the local school.
Play style: Minimize risk at all times while trying to overcome the opponent with your superior players.
Status: No icons done.
Pro:
+ An all loner team is novel
+ For those who like a challenge
+ A second reptile (after skink) team isn't too much.
Con:
- Will be very tough to balance, especially the discrepancy between low and high TV
- Not newbie friendly
- Mustn't boil down to: just don't roll any 1's. (i.e. get lucky)
I listed this simply because this would be a completely different (and out there) team. It would be a lot of work trying to balance this, but the fluff is there.
Other teams that I liked:
- Zapped: Stunty Slann. Unfortunately the roster needs some work, but a great idea and utterly fantastic fluff.
- Tavern Pact: Stunty Chaos Pact. This one would be a solid choice too. Roster needs a wee bit of finetuning, but otherwise it's good.
- Effigies: Stunty Undead. Would have listed them here if it weren't for Bogeys. Roster seems actually very balanced with several icons done.
- Clan Moulder: Third rat team. Fun roster, although it needs to change a couple of things (piling on for example...), but a third rat team probably isn't the highest priority right now. |
Last edited by TheSyron on %b %07, %2015 - %20:%Jan; edited 1 time in total |
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mister__joshua
Joined: Jun 20, 2007
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I was just wondering while reading the Chaos Familiar's thread, with so many different and great ideas around is there a reason you're only thinking of adding one new team? I understand the work involved will be a lot, but if there was a number of people willing to work on and playtest ideas then could there potentially be 3 or 4 teams added? I wouold think that provided each teams fits the leeg and has the requisite amount of testing and balancing then the more the merrier. |
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harvestmouse
Joined: May 13, 2007
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Jan 06, 2015 - 00:39 |
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I don't think that would work, unfortunately for many reasons. The work involved is a lot, and varied.
Firstly, there's balance. Just like balancing scales you shouldn't add too many things or making too many changes would add too much stress to balancing.
Secondly, making everything uniform. If we had different crews working on different projects, they would most likely be differences where we shouldn't have differences.
Thirdly, we have a lot of good people, but not many in certain areas. Making portraits for example. We only have one guy to do that. Having 4 rosters on the go would stress our talent.
Fourth, Whatball must oversee projects and make sure it fits with his vision and is a product that is professional in nature. He doesn't have the time, or should take the stress of overseeing and making decisions on more than one project.
Personally, I'd love to see 4 new rosters. However it's not practical. |
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Antithesisoftime
Joined: Aug 20, 2014
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Jan 06, 2015 - 01:00 |
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Why not allow someone to run a League in which to test a couple new stunty teams? |
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harvestmouse
Joined: May 13, 2007
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Jan 06, 2015 - 01:25 |
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Testing is about 0.1% of the problem. The division does that for itself and then the roster is tweaked. We can make a roster without any testing that is practically balanced.
The problem with balance is making too many changes at once. It moves the status quo and then makes it harder to re-centre.
However as I said, this is just one aspect. You have portraits to create, they need to be coloured, you need somebody to create the look, create the icons, create the stats, make the roster interesting and many many other things on top of making it balanced and making it fit with the other rosters. All this then has to be added to the site, added to the client, Christer has to do his bit, it then needs to be added to the handbook etc etc etc
Asking for more than 1 roster at a time is far far too much. Seriously, I'd love to see them, but it wouldn't work. |
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WhatBall
Joined: Aug 21, 2008
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Jan 06, 2015 - 02:19 |
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I think mouse covered everything very well regarding one roster at a time. I will just add that this doesn't mean once we do one, we can't start another to add. More than one concurrently though is asking for a headache. If we can streamline the process and figure out a system, it will go faster.
He also mentioned balance, there are enough very experienced roster creators (hmouse, Garion, etc.) that as a collective, we are usually very close on the first iteration and only require minor tweaks after.
The best thing everyone who wants multiple teams added can do, is help us focus on the first one, and be as constructive and productive as possible.
Thanks |
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Shadowprime
Joined: Aug 06, 2011
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Jan 06, 2015 - 02:37 |
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1 orc bullies becuase stunty needs real green skins
2 Undead Halflings becuase the team look like it would fit in well with the other teams
3 Dungeon Keeper becuase they are cool |
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ahalfling
Joined: Aug 16, 2008
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Jan 06, 2015 - 03:42 |
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Disregarding rules questions, on the theory that whatever race gets picked will be thoroughly balanced and rebalanced, I like Bray (minus the ST3 Centigors) and I like Clan Moulder. (As a guy who knows well what a Kroxigor, his movement and his tail can do on the field, I do feel like the rat ogres are potentially overpowered. I still want them in the game, just saying they'd be in contention for the best player in the Leeg and the rest of the players would need to balance them out. Then again, I find it hard to say they'd be better than a Chaos Spawn or a Beast of Nurgle, I don't think chaos halflings or Nurglings are problematically strong teams, and I don't think the surrounding roster for either is horribly nerfed or anything.) The Phantasms roster is interesting as well, though the main thing I like about it is balancing pretty good players with no hands vs. kinda crappy ones with hands, and if giant rats make it onto Moulder that choice can play out there instead. And I like Bogeys, though more in a "if they already existed I'd probably make a team" way than a "I actively want them to start existing" way.
If I have one overriding preference, it's no strength 3 guys ever. Little guys are good, big guys are good, I can't think of a ST3 Stunty Leeg player that wasn't a mistake. Maybe the Tzeentch bomber guy. |
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Sigmar1
Joined: Aug 13, 2008
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Jan 07, 2015 - 19:21 |
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I'm still firmly in the Wizards camp as the best roster to implement (it was the vote winner as well) as noted in the 2014 Wish List thread I created last year.
The Best New Stunty Team V2 thread also has a LOT of input on the teams people liked (back before I limited each person to one vote only). |
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Garion
Joined: Aug 19, 2009
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Jan 07, 2015 - 19:44 |
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@ thesyron - Nauticans are from the blood bowl world and are mentioned with a named star player in one of the two blood bowl magazines with the rules for all aboard blood bowl. Just saying, so you can remove that from cons and stick it in pros  |
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harvestmouse
Joined: May 13, 2007
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Jan 07, 2015 - 19:59 |
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Well that's fan based article, and take on the 'fishman' entry. Personally, I think that's way off track.
However yes, there's some fluff behind the idea. |
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TheSyron
Joined: Jun 17, 2012
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Jan 07, 2015 - 20:46 |
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Ah, alright, I removed it then. Personally I don't really care where it comes from, as long as it fits in the stunty league. (I do realise that others do care.) |
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cowhead
Joined: Oct 22, 2006
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Jan 09, 2015 - 14:37 |
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I like the Zapped! team idea, but then again I made them so I would say that.
Although saying that, the team roster really needs a complete overhaul as it is. The fluff is already there and with some informed minds I think a unique and fun Stunty roster could be made. |
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