The_Great_Gobbo
Joined: Aug 04, 2014
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Jan 30, 2015 - 10:40 |
 
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If rumours are correct it seems that the end times campaigns are a prelude to GW blowing up the Warhammer world and starting again from year zero fluff wise.
Is this an opportunity for us as a community to re-write the fluff for blood bowl and produce our own 'cannon' stuff?
What do the rest of you fellow fluff geeks think? |
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xnoelx
Joined: Jun 05, 2012
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Jan 30, 2015 - 10:45 |
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No. Just because they are making a horrible mistake doesn't mean we should do anything of the kind. Two wrongs don't make a right. |
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mister__joshua
Joined: Jun 20, 2007
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I for one am quite excited to see what they're going to do with it. Loads of people will moan about 'destroying their game' or whatever, but the fluff in Warhammer has been static for far too long. This kind of shakeup is fun and interesting. I'm not even that bothered what they do with the game 
I've always seen Blood Bowl as a kind of parody warhammer. Like the Discworld version of it. |
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xnoelx
Joined: Jun 05, 2012
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Jan 30, 2015 - 10:59 |
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Static far too long? So we should rewrite Tolkein so everyone is on motorbikes, and paint over the Sistine Chapel, because they haven't changed enough to satisfy some attention deficit MTV generation?
There's plenty of room to add to, deepen and enrich the existing world, and there have already been plenty of changes in the WHFB fluff. Neither of those things requires screwing up what already exists and flushing it down the toilet.
The first paragraph of this post may contain a smidgeon of hyperbole... |
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Fabulander
Joined: Oct 11, 2014
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Jan 30, 2015 - 11:24 |
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I really don't see that GW reworking the Warhammer world has a whole lot of bearing on Blood Bowl fluff. Blood Bowl broke off from WHFB long ago, becoming a sort of parallel universe with a lot more magic (like crystal balls in every home), a lot more technological silliness and a separate history of major events. So to my mind it doesn't matter if ogres have snotlings or gnoblars, as ogre blood bowl teams have nothing to do with the ogre kingdoms anyway.
That's my opinion anyway, and it's been years since I cared much about GW's revisions, but If you feel like it just go ahead and write any blood bowl fan fiction you can think of. That sort of stuff is fun, even if it doesn't become canon - that would usually require publishing in some sort of official magazine or rules supplement.
Just please, please make sure it's better than Matt Forbeck's novels... |
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harvestmouse
Joined: May 13, 2007
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Jan 30, 2015 - 11:38 |
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Well yes and no, for me. I think GW are making a massive mistake, I don't think they have people with good creativity doing the ...creating nowadays.
However we don't know what it will be like, how it will work with the rest of BB (apparently you will still be able to use Warhammer books as they are/were). So why not? Adding content (on top of, not replacing) is not a bad thing, so it could be beneficial. |
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mister__joshua
Joined: Jun 20, 2007
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@xnoelx: I know you already know this, but it's totally different to a world like Middle Earth. That world was written to tell a story, a great story, and then it was finished. Anything written for or set in the world nowadays isn't within the original vision of it. But every major story set in the world (The Hobbit, LotR) changes the world in a massive way. That's how most good books/films/even RPGs work.
For me you can't have a world like Warhammer where all these cool and interesting things have happened in the past (humans becoming gods, the splitting of the elves, the war of the beard etc.) but then say that for the time that you the player gets to play in it, nothing changes. It's a living world as the setting for a game, it should be constantly changing, moving and evolving. I think the last interesting thing they did was kill Nagash way back when.
Still, maybe static was the wrong word. Maybe I'm looking for... stale. It's not had any interesting changes or developments for aeons. I really think this shake-up may be just what it needs. Maybe it's because I don't play much anymore. Maybe if I did I'd feel more protective over it. My mate who plays a lot, and is a massive Dwarf player, has just read Thanquol and lamented at the plight of the Dwarves but he loved it too and can't wait to see where it goes. I don't think they'll reset the history of the world. That is still important. It'll be an unrecognisable one though.
@Fabulander: I agree about the Blood Bowl/Warhammer disconnect. This world has always been different, and as I said Discworld-like in it's silliness. I don't think any changes in Warhammer really impact the Blood Bowl fluff at all. |
Last edited by mister__joshua on %b %30, %2015 - %11:%Jan; edited 1 time in total |
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Shakall
Joined: Feb 15, 2005
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Jan 30, 2015 - 11:54 |
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Yes let us have a discussion on the subject and see if it turns out more infected then the discussion of CPR. Atleats it be much more fun to read then that . On a serious note Warhammer and BB is two different worlds i read, personally i made my own version, i follow Warhammer fluff but it's been peace so now the only played BB. Imagine that by the way the hole world at peace. Thats some far fetched fantasy but very appealing. |
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Garion
Joined: Aug 19, 2009
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Jan 30, 2015 - 11:56 |
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Blood Bowl world is a lot more comparible to 3rd edition warhammer world than the current one. Albeit a more comedic one with a slight fantasy punk twist.
The end times has no bearing on blood Bowl, but I am quite interested to see where they go with this, I just hope WFB remains a game so you can have big battles while the post end times stuff is just a skirmish game to get people interested in the proper fantasy battle. Sadly I think they are destroying the game and starting from scratch which imo could destroy fantasy for ever. |
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Wotfudboy
Joined: Feb 17, 2004
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Jan 30, 2015 - 11:58 |
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I think the premise of shaking up the Warhammer world is a good one. Of course it is an excuse to go into Marketing overdrive, but you have to admit, the idea is a good one on it's own... obviously armies, rules, models etc are expected to change because that's where GW makes money.
Personally I would like a shake up in Warhammer 40k too... maybe something like an event of such magnitude as the Horus Heresy but "now"... or the Emperor's light finally extinguishing or something like that.
But back on subject... personally, Blood Bowl is the light hearted side of Warhammer... and frankly is always going to have distance between it and the fluff to a degree... perhaps even more so now. |
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Corvidius
Joined: Feb 15, 2011
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Jan 30, 2015 - 12:02 |
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The End Times story and models have been awesome so far. I really don't think things are going to be as messed up as folks think. Internet rumours of what's happening and what is actually happening are 2 very different things. |
Last edited by Corvidius on %b %22, %2015 - %13:%Feb; edited 1 time in total |
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Garion
Joined: Aug 19, 2009
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Jan 30, 2015 - 12:23 |
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| Corvidius wrote: | | The End Times story and models have been awesome so far. I really don't think things are going to be as fucked up as folks think. Internet rumours of what's happening and what is actually happening are 2 very different things. |
normally I would agree with you, however the rumours on warseer have been almost 100% accurate about end times so far. So there is a lot to worry about.
End times models have mostly been amazing though and the campaign has been great.
Though those Space marine skaven are really dumb. But those aside the rest has been great! |
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harvestmouse
Joined: May 13, 2007
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Jan 30, 2015 - 12:57 |
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| mister__joshua wrote: | | @xnoelx: I know you already know this, but it's totally different to a world like Middle Earth. That world was written to tell a story, a great story, and then it was finished. |
Is it such a different world? The falling out of Elves and Dwarfs? The dark power at the edge of the civilized realm? Humans being the central race and elves being in the woods and the Dwarfs in the mountains.
We've discussed this recently. Warhammer was based on figures for D&D, and D&D was done on the LOTR theme.
Anything with Elves and Dwarfs in reality was taken from LOTR. Warhammer more than most. However, over time they have developed it to be it's living world and a damn good job they've done too.
Time and time again though, if you take the Dwarf/Elf/Orc theme and try to twist too much it doesn't work. Ok 40k (I have no idea why, personally I think 3/4s of it and the game are trash) has, but games like Flintloque bombed terribly.
| mister__joshua wrote: | For me you can't have a world like Warhammer where all these cool and interesting things have happened in the past (humans becoming gods, the splitting of the elves, the war of the beard etc.) but then say that for the time that you the player gets to play in it, nothing changes. It's a living world as the setting for a game, it should be constantly changing, moving and evolving. I think the last interesting thing they did was kill Nagash way back when.
Still, maybe static was the wrong word. Maybe I'm looking for... stale. It's not had any interesting changes or developments for aeons. I really think this shake-up may be just what it needs. |
Yeah for me, I totally disagree with all of this, why can't you stay static? The idea was that it was meant to be static. A sort of period in time where the balance was perfect, after this it would spiral and you'd start to see races disappearing.
It's only recently that they have tried to move things on, they never did. Nagash was brought in to die. The same with some of the other campaigns. Which are a fairly recent edition.
I always thought the progression side came from exploring the world and finding out more details, like the Ogre Kingdoms and Khemri/Tomb Kings. This is what interested me.
So what actually is the problem?
*I think they've had periods where the development has been very clean and very strong. 3rd edition and 6th/7th edition for example. Between these periods there was a lot of weaker design (and in my opinion now) which doesn't help the franchise one bit. Even if the gaming rules right now are probably the best they've been.
Before you start playing, you have no idea how the game plays, and probably care little. It's the immersion, the world itself that draws you in, the game mechanics keep you. This is also a problem with our BB now. I feel far too many here/cyanide/NAF really don't understand that side of the immersion and are changing it to a competition game.
*Price obviously is another issue. Prices of figures are mental. £50 for a large figure, serious?! I could buy one figure or go and buy 2 xbox games that are a month old. I know which I'm going to have more fun with, especially if I was 14. This is another major turn off for your player base. I know I never bought figures so freely after they jumped from 60p per figure to £1, I couldn't justify that. It wasn't many years after this that they were £2. Especially when you look at some of the historical figures. I can get good 20mm lead figures at 35p still. Why should I buy new figures if I am an established player at unreasonable prices?
*However I don't think these 2 are the main reasons. There is something stale, I don't think it's the game world though. I am a good example of the problem.
I have been a massive figure collector/painter/player for many years. Since I was 8, almost 30 years ago. I haven't changed much, I haven't matured much. And I stayed a player and collector up to around 5 or 6 years ago, and now I have stopped. For some reason I have absolutely no interest in figures any more. I don't even look at the ones I have, let alone get them out to play or paint. So why is this?
Have I matured finally? Hell no, my fantasy mind and my will to play games is stronger than ever.
Is it financial? No, no problem there either.
The reason is, I have no need for figures, and they're troublesome.
I have 2 main interests in gaming now. 1 is playing the racing game GTR2 and the other is playing Blood Bowl.
Both of these I can create what I want. It was my dream to race all the FIA GT seasons from the 90s. On GTR2 I can, if it isn't there I create the cars myself.
It was my dream to create and play with different teams, the famous ones, new races, teams that should have been and GW ignored. And now I can, I create new teams all the time and add them.
I don't have to spend hours setting up for either of these games, it's all on my computer.........the only thing my life is missing, is playing Warhammer the same way.........which is the problem I think.
I think when FUMBBL lost the right to post pics of figures, that was it for me, I no longer had any need of them, and moved on. This is what Warhammer needs to do I think, move on, put it all online, a Warhammer version of what we are doing here.
Automated gaming system, where you could probably play without knowing the rules really (like you can here). Units, characters, armies as downloadable content.
I think this is the future, not taking an established world (ok already damaged with 8th edition, in my opinion) and putting it online.
They have misdiagnosed the problem. I remember reading once, about what percentage of wargames figures actually get painted and played with, it's a woefully small percentage. Most just join the lead mountain, caused by lack of area to play, setting it all up, time to paint and model, and being happy/motivated with your work; and more importantly just not understand the rules and getting lost in it all.
An online version solves all 4 of these problems. The ability to mod and create, can take you in any direction you want. I know, I have GTR2 and Javabowl, I'll never need anything else for racing and bloodbowl again. |
Last edited by harvestmouse on %b %30, %2015 - %13:%Jan; edited 2 times in total |
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Roland
Joined: May 12, 2004
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Jan 30, 2015 - 13:04 |
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| harvestmouse wrote: | | ...put it all online, a Warhammer version of what we are doing here.... |
Dark Omen anyone? 
EDIT: perhaps, turnbased... but DO was still awesome at the time |
Last edited by Roland on %b %30, %2015 - %13:%Jan; edited 1 time in total |
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flydd
Joined: Jul 29, 2014
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Jan 30, 2015 - 13:10 |
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| Roland wrote: | | harvestmouse wrote: | | ...put it all online, a Warhammer version of what we are doing here.... |
Dark Omen anyone? |
I still have that game. Was great fun, might need to see if I can get it running again. |
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