Malmir
Joined: May 20, 2008
|
 Posted:
May 22, 2015 - 23:51 |
 
|
I'm 1-0 up at ht but I know I can't win as the clawpomb effect means I have 7 players v 9 second half. I'll go out on a limb now and predict a 1-1 draw.
This is not a ranked vs box post, or at least that is not my intention, though I can see how it can easily be misconstrued. I'm just wondering if others find a lot of box games lack skill and become more about whose clawpomb skillset with a carrier is more efficient/gets better dice. In general I find ranked games have a lot more tactics to them. I ripped a clawpomber and look like winning now so this isn't a whine, I'm just curious if other find box players find it as unfulfilling as I do and if so why they continue to play it. For me, I want to win one box major and then I'll prob stop bothering. Why do you play? I got some lucky blocks and are 2-0 up but it doesn't feel like I won on merit, more on dice... |
|
|
mrt1212
Joined: Feb 26, 2013
|
| Posted:
May 23, 2015 - 00:10 |
|
Cdorfs are easy mode as evidenced by my record with them. I am an elf baller at heart and yet...cdorfs are easy for me.
Box as a whole? Nah. There are games where the dice dictate the game more than making good choices such as getting 3-4 CAS in the first 4 blocks of the game. 11 vs 8 is a horrible spot to be in on turn 2.
And even so there are games where you're evenly matched and it does come down to who rolled better dice in the right situation.
Box does suffer from the player base being addicted to heel bash teams.
Why do I play Box? Team building is an actual challenge and beating the top flight chaos and nurgle and cdorf teams with whalelfs can be a challenge. the only thing better than winning is doing so with a 1:3 block ratio and no rips or perms.
But I don't see how "it feels like this came down to a few lucky rolls" could be Box specific. |
|
|
Wreckage
Joined: Aug 15, 2004
|
| Posted:
May 23, 2015 - 00:16 |
|
| Malmir wrote: | | I'm just curious if other find box players find it as unfulfilling as I do and if so why they continue to play it. For me, I want to win one box major and then I'll prob stop bothering. Why do you play? I got some lucky blocks and are 2-0 up but it doesn't feel like I won on merit, more on dice... |
I find that... it doesn't really make that much of a difference what division I play. Ranked matchups tend to be a bit different but they certainly aren't more diverse. (People tend to look for similar opponents there.)
I find CPOMB games tactically very challenging although the outcome doesn't necessarily always reflect on that. Ie. I might end up losing against a much worse coach because I'm getting outbashed. But that isn't really an excuse to play less skillful or to pretend like skill won't matter.
Of course when I got no players all the luck in the world won't help me.
When Christer proposed to nerf CPOMB in the box I was in favor of it. I'm not really sure why there are so many people hellbent on wanting to keep up with it but it's just like it is...
So to answer your question: I find this to be a hoax or a missconception people use to represent CPOMB teams as undesirable to use. Arguments like 'they are boring', 'require no skill', 'are one trick ponys', seem to me all like random or not true at all.
It kinda reminds me of way back when people mentioned dwarves as a race that is for people who suck at positioning and elves were the perfect race to do positioning. ALthough this couldn't be further from the truth, playing against dwarves can probably be tedious at times because there is just nothing you can do against a well coached slowly moving dwarf team.
That's also why Dwarf vs Dwarf can be very tedious for everyone.
Bottom line is: CPOMB builds are just very strong builds and when two such teams clash, a lot can happen that is more random than one might be used to from other teams in BB. But the tide of the game can turn equally quickly. A well played game, good and quick decision making and excellent play make all the difference.
At times you'll find that a game in Box is completely unbalanced, something that isn't going to happen in ranked to a coach with an at least semi good eye.
This is a courtosy of the box, certainly doesn't make the game random either. On the contrary, it's more predictable and the only unpredictable thing in such a match might be the inability of a clawpomb coach to take advantage of his skills.
One thing is for sure tho: If you cover with your players in a corner and wait for it to be over, you'll have a hard time to win, because if you don't take chances there will never be a success. |
|
|
MattDakka
Joined: Oct 09, 2007
|
| Posted:
May 23, 2015 - 00:17 |
|
The win rate of most coaches on FUMBBL is higher in Ranked than in Black Box.
This means that Box is more challenging than Ranked, where a coach can carefully choose his opponent and never meet a Dwarf team with his Amazon team if he wants so.
I played in Ranked and my opinion is it is way easier and less competitive than the Box due to the possibility of ducking bad match ups/choosing bad opponents.
A drawback of the Box is the dull lack of variety past TV 1600, and the overrepresentation of clawpomb teams. |
|
|
Malmir
Joined: May 20, 2008
|
| Posted:
May 23, 2015 - 00:19 |
|
You may be right, it just feels like when I (usually) lose in ranked I generally feel like I met a better team/coach on the day, whereas often in box it feels beyond my control. I would add that, in general, imo I feel I face a better standard when I play ranked on average. I have faced numerous 'legend' coaches in box recently (some of whom have beaten me) who have been pretty bang average in general positioning/play. |
|
|
Malmir
Joined: May 20, 2008
|
| Posted:
May 23, 2015 - 00:20 |
|
| Malmir wrote: | | You may be right, it just feels like when I (usually) lose in ranked I generally feel like I met a better team/coach on the day, whereas often in box it feels beyond my control. I would add that, in general, imo I feel I face a better standard when I play ranked on average. I have faced numerous 'legend' coaches in box recently (some of whom have beaten me) who have been pretty bang average in general positioning/play. |
I was talking to Mr T when I said you may be right -I haven't read the other posts yet |
|
|
mrt1212
Joined: Feb 26, 2013
|
| Posted:
May 23, 2015 - 00:21 |
|
Also, it might help with the challenge if you played outside your comfort zone. Over 1000 games in Box and yet over 75% of your games are with cpomb teams. Of course you'll find monotony after painting yourself into a corner. |
|
|
pythrr
Joined: Mar 07, 2006
|
| Posted:
May 23, 2015 - 00:23 |
|
pros and cons to each division, depending on the teams and approaches to team building |
_________________
 |
|
cdassak
Joined: Oct 23, 2013
|
| Posted:
May 23, 2015 - 00:24 |
|
Box often reminds me the scene where the Matrix has become a place full of agent Smiths. 
But there are some bright moments that it reminds me of a cARRnival  |
|
|
Malmir
Joined: May 20, 2008
|
| Posted:
May 23, 2015 - 00:25 |
|
Havign read the other posts I also agree with Wreckage in that one-sided matches happen less to a coach in ranked with a semi good eye and that dwarves games are interesting in that they require a high level of positioning |
|
|
Malmir
Joined: May 20, 2008
|
| Posted:
May 23, 2015 - 00:29 |
|
| mrt1212 wrote: | | Also, it might help with the challenge if you played outside your comfort zone. Over 1000 games in Box and yet over 75% of your games are with cpomb teams. Of course you'll find monotony after painting yourself into a corner. |
Please don't think I don't know how to play elves in box. If you look at my elven teams you will see I do. I just got fed up with seeing them obliterated by clawpombers. As I play to enter majors, having a trashed team that is 20/4/5 is no consolation. |
|
|
mrt1212
Joined: Feb 26, 2013
|
| Posted:
May 23, 2015 - 00:44 |
|
| Malmir wrote: | | You may be right, it just feels like when I (usually) lose in ranked I generally feel like I met a better team/coach on the day, whereas often in box it feels beyond my control. I would add that, in general, imo I feel I face a better standard when I play ranked on average. I have faced numerous 'legend' coaches in box recently (some of whom have beaten me) who have been pretty bang average in general positioning/play. |
I wonder if this is because you're self selecting good matchups for yourself against opponents you know can give you a run for your money.
Also I wonder how team tuning factors in. a lot of Box teams suffer from MNGS or recently departed core parts of the team. I think the propensity to roll into matches less complete than a Ranked team of equal TV might be a factor in how competitive these games are.
One final thought on another possible factor: you've played so many games that you've distilled it into the types of rolls your teams typically make. I feel like I didn't earn a win with Elves if I only roll 6s just as you might feel the same about piling on 6 CASes but I'm not going to stare a gift horse in the mouth. |
|
|
Malmir
Joined: May 20, 2008
|
| Posted:
May 23, 2015 - 00:49 |
|
| mrt1212 wrote: | | Malmir wrote: | | You may be right, it just feels like when I (usually) lose in ranked I generally feel like I met a better team/coach on the day, whereas often in box it feels beyond my control. I would add that, in general, imo I feel I face a better standard when I play ranked on average. I have faced numerous 'legend' coaches in box recently (some of whom have beaten me) who have been pretty bang average in general positioning/play. |
I wonder if this is because you're self selecting good matchups for yourself against opponents you know can give you a run for your money.
Also I wonder how team tuning factors in. a lot of Box teams suffer from MNGS or recently departed core parts of the team. I think the propensity to roll into matches less complete than a Ranked team of equal TV might be a factor in how competitive these games are.
One final thought on another possible factor: you've played so many games that you've distilled it into the types of rolls your teams typically make. I feel like I didn't earn a win with Elves if I only roll 6s just as you might feel the same about piling on 6 CASes but I'm not going to stare a gift horse in the mouth. |
You make some good points as did a couple of people above. It is refreshing to see some useful insight on the forums rather than 'kill all mens' macho garbage - well done fumbbl! To (hopefully) stop the next post from being 'Kill all mens' I'm going to predict now that the next post will be... |
|
|
Kam
Joined: Nov 06, 2012
|
| Posted:
May 23, 2015 - 00:50 |
|
I don't know if it's easy mode or not, but I've noticed the CR pool has moved from R to B. Until recently, my Ranked CR was higher than my combined CR, now it's the contrary, which means, since I unfortunately don't play (yet) in the Box (yeah I'm coming! - I don't wanna miss the next major  ), my opponents had a better CR in B than R, despite the R picking. |
_________________
GLN 17 is out!
 |
|
Malmir
Joined: May 20, 2008
|
| Posted:
May 23, 2015 - 00:53 |
|
| Kam wrote: | | I don't know if it's easy mode or not, but I've noticed the CR pool has moved from R to B. Until recently, my Ranked CR was higher than my combined CR, now it's the contrary, which means, since I unfortunately don't play (yet) in the Box (yeah I'm coming! - I don't wanna miss the next major ), my opponents had a better CR in B than R, despite the R picking. |
Yes but don't believe that means anything - it is very easy to play tier one races or favourable early race e.g amazon or sit at a certain level and gain a high coach rating |
|
|
|
|
| |
FUMBBL HAIKU'S
Search
