m0gw41
Joined: Jun 12, 2012
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Apr 28, 2016 - 17:26 |
 
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I have a league vamp team with 4 vamps all nicely blodged up (currently struggling thanks mainly to my own coach failings) and I appear to be at a development crossroads for 3rd (non-stat) skills for my vamps:
https://fumbbl.com/p/team?team_id=817075
I've trawled the forums, looked at the best teams from Box and Ranked and there seems to be roughly three schools of thought:
1. Blodge then Pro (then mostly SS) on all vamps before specialising
2. Ignore Pro as a skill completely and specialise from the 3rd normal skill (after blodge)
3. Take some Pro on some vamps but not until 4th-5th skill
So with 4 vamps (+ leader) in a long term round robin league setting which way to go? I am in this for the long haul so want to think ahead.
I desperately miss having some tackle (although wrestle thralls have come to the rescue for ball poppin') but what are the merits of going full on Blodge-Pro-SS for all vamps long term? It seems to work well in the box with 5 vamp teams (kingvan, harad) but is that because this is the more TV efficient route for having enough rrs? With 4 vamps is Pro really needed in a non-TV matching environment?
What is clear is that nuffle needs to give me some +ST or +AG love on those vamps... that and I need to stop having brain freezes with bloodlust in T8.
Any expert vamp help appreciated. |
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Catalyst32
Joined: Jul 14, 2008
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Apr 28, 2016 - 17:42 |
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well... lets see... what are the best skills in the game (that you have access to)?
After Blodge... GUARD, Side Step, Stand Firm, Diving Tackle, GUARD, Jump Up, Leap, Tackle, GUARD, Sure Hands, Frenzy, Mighty Blow, GUARD, Piling On, Dirty Player, Pro and GUARD?
Did I leave anything out? |
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Nextflux
Joined: Jan 22, 2008
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Apr 28, 2016 - 18:00 |
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Not sure if I would use much guard on vamps because of hypnogaze, although guard is never bad.
I would take tackle/mightyblow on the next skills (after your block,dodge,pro routine)
other skills to consider: Sidestep like you said, maybe frenzy, maybe piling on, maybe standfirm and maybe jumpup.
all vamps doesnt have to be similar, and they need to take all stats they can get in my opinion. |
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Verminardo
Joined: Sep 27, 2006
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Apr 28, 2016 - 18:07 |
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I am where you are, have looked and contemplated but not really tried out. I think you have the schools somewhat wrong though, in your no. 1 the good coaches mix and match Tackle and Side Step. Another interesting question is whether to build a dedicated hitter with MB and possibly PO, or not. As with everything there is no right or wrong but my impression is that the "all Vamps Pro" build is more forgiving, so it might be well suited if you struggle with them currently. |
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m0gw41
Joined: Jun 12, 2012
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Apr 28, 2016 - 18:51 |
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I'm not so worried about which normal skills to take (yet), I know which skills are better than others, it's more the when. I guess my question really boils down to:
For a long term build should I choose Pro as the 3rd normal skill (after blodge) on all vamps, some or none?
PS I think I am getting the hang of vamps in general my recent bad form has been more from glaring rookie errors such as not leaving a vamp near a thrall at a key time: entirely through dumb lack of concentration. |
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CroixFer
Joined: Jan 05, 2012
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Apr 28, 2016 - 19:22 |
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In my experience, it depends on the number of vamps you use or are thinking about to use in your team.
I have been running a 5 vamp team for quite some time and learnt to handle BL with 1-2 pro vamps. Obviously, th more vamps you run in your team, the more pro you will need.
Also, it depends on the builds you already have in the team. I would never give pro as 3rd skill in my first vamp reaching that third skill, while I will choose pro as third for my 5th vamp onwards without doubt.
There is a reason for that: when you have 2-3 already specialized vamps, having a new specialized is less required and having extra vamps needs extra BL rolls and thus, pro.
If you plan to run a 4 vamp team (no 5 or 6) then I would not take pro before 5th or 6th skill (or not at all). But, on the other hand, I think the more vamps you run, the better team.
I would definitely bet for a 6 vamp team if I can display at least 4+ pro-ed ones. Vamps are very good players and with pro, the amount of BL fails is kept at bay (and obviously, HG also works at higher rate.
Hope it helps.
Jorge |
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Nextflux
Joined: Jan 22, 2008
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Apr 28, 2016 - 19:25 |
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| m0gw41 wrote: |
For a long term build should I choose Pro as the 3rd normal skill (after blodge) on all vamps, some or none?
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Some, I would say 3/4 maybe, or at least half. I am still in testing for that one, lately I started with pro as first skill, not sure if it was better yet, but it works ok. I use 4 RR on them, and with 3/4 pro it seems to work ok at the moment.
later all will get pro I think
just to clarify:
3/4 I mean mathematically, 75% of them |
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licker
Joined: Jul 10, 2009
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Apr 28, 2016 - 22:13 |
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Best Vamp coach I have played against seems to take it very late in the build. Super Star or Legend skill.
But of course not everyone plays the same style or at the same level, so use of different skills/builds does not really translate directly from one coach to another.
I'd say you just have to try a couple different builds for yourself and see what works better for you. |
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Antithesisoftime
Joined: Aug 20, 2014
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Apr 28, 2016 - 22:14 |
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I tend to like pro on vamps, if only for its synergy with gaze. Also, is a nice backup to bloodlust if you can afford the rr fail, and don't want to risk using a team rr. I find, if nothing else, one or two pros can really boost your team, though I wouldn't call pro a must have skill.
Truthfully, it comes down to your coaching style. Do you think it helps you play vampires better? If so, take it. |
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DrDiscoStu
Joined: Feb 20, 2006
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Apr 29, 2016 - 03:09 |
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The_Murker
Joined: Jan 30, 2011
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Apr 29, 2016 - 08:15 |
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Having never played Vamps, ever, my guess is that the Wrestle/Tackle vamp will be using a re-roll anyway when he is really, really needed. But you said LONG TERM twice, so if every bloodlust fail annoys you, I'm thinking every single PRO skill you take on the others means those vampires will annoy you half as often. Drop half as many thralls as they would have otherwise. Over the course of a long league life.. that seems like alot more tacklezones left standing, and more overall enjoyment of the team. |
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DrDiscoStu
Joined: Feb 20, 2006
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Apr 29, 2016 - 08:21 |
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A lot of people are approaching this as purely a blood lust issue
Keep in mind that vampires are your heavy hitters
Pro is super useful to reroll blocking dice when you don't get what you want
Also as st4 ag4 they will often be called up to do last minute heroics
Getting a 50% shot at a second reroll for the turn is amazing
For all these reasons Pro is my generally the third skill for vampires |
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tussock
Joined: May 29, 2011
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Apr 29, 2016 - 11:22 |
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You need one pro, at least, to go make your hits on the ball.
You need a second pro, to open the defence up more reliably for him.
Then you need a third pro, to pick the ball up and chuck it.
But really, a couple Block/Guard vamps is magic against a few teams, a Mighty Blow Blackle vamp should be one of your first skill sets to help with the numbers game, with +AG you want Leap and Strip, you do want a dodge-sure hands running around the place to clean up, and +MA vamps are a huge asset for your main blitzers.
Eventually, you can fit in some Pro. Even on all of them, but there's so many other skills you're going to want. Maybe even Accurate on a double, or Leader, or NoS. |
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DrDiscoStu
Joined: Feb 20, 2006
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Apr 29, 2016 - 16:16 |
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harvestmouse
Joined: May 13, 2007
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Apr 29, 2016 - 16:32 |
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| DrDiscoStu wrote: | | Leader??? Errr, no. You can double that on a thrall if you want. But not a vampire. |
I've actually pleaded to my county councillor that to take leader on any player that has good skill access should be a castration offence. He listened and has seen the merits in my arugment. So right now we're waiting for m0gw41 to pass through Surrey Heath so we can put his testicular manhoodness on the right honourable councillor's rear view mirror like a pair of fluffy dice. |
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