TheDangerousOne
Joined: May 25, 2014
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 Posted:
Jun 25, 2016 - 01:59 |
 
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Hello.
I've been playing BB since 3rd ed was released 25 ish years ago. Only in the last few years have we had the opportunity to play online opening up much more chances to play this great game.
Unfortunately, one thing I have noticed playing online, and especially here on fumbbl since I have started playing regularly over the last few weeks, is a limited understanding how the game works and a basic level of empathy, humility and understanding.
The fact is, in bloodbowl, in most games one side will be luckier than the other, and no matter how good the decisions made are, if the dice are bad, you lose. We all rage a bit at bad dice, and so we should. But it's more what we do when we're having the better game that makes us decent people. To not acknowledge in any way lady luck is basically letting you win 2 or 3 nil and dishing out the pain with no comeback whatsoever, is basically just rude. In tabletop this wouldn't happen, as you can't ignore the person opposite you. But here, people hide behind the computer screen.
We can all agree it's not fun watching your opponent rack up all the SPP's while your AG5 surehands ball carrier just failed another pick up. So we all know what it feels like, so why do so few people acknowledge this.
A game and site like this is only as good as it's community. Unfortunately, my experience in a majority of matches has not been good. And if anyone has wondered why more people don't play fumbbl, I expect it's this.
Regards |
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Burnalot
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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Jun 25, 2016 - 02:07 |
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I agree with the lack of empathy part, but what do you mean by "limited understanding how the game works"? |
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CastleMan
Joined: Apr 26, 2013
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Jun 25, 2016 - 02:27 |
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If you have had an unpleasant experience, that is unfortunate. However I assure you, this is a great site and an amazing community. There are going to be some bad eggs, as there are in all facets of life. But to be on here and just make a generalization like that is not the best course of action.
If there is or are any incidents you feel like someone has wronged you or acted way outside the scope of normal groaning and whining over dice, I assure you one of the many admins would be more than glad to take care of it in an appropriate manner. |
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Tymless
Joined: Jul 01, 2004
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Jun 25, 2016 - 02:31 |
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| TheDangerousOne wrote: |
Unfortunately, one thing I have noticed playing online, and especially here on fumbbl since I have started playing regularly over the last few weeks, is a limited understanding how the game works and a basic level of empathy, humility and understanding. |
Um, well playing in mainly blackbox is probably one of your issues. It is a less social, quicker game and sometimes more rude place to play. If you want friendly stick with ranked or league.
As for a limited understanding of how the game works. I am not sure what you're talking about. In all my games the only times I have run across people not understanding the game is when I play new people. So, either you are playing new people, rude people or you are just missing something.
The other thing you might want to know is simply the fact that you are playing the some of the best coaches you are ever gonna play when you play on FUMMBL. No matter how good you are on table top I am having doubts that you have played thousands of games. On this site you are playing people who have. |
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ArrestedDevelopment
Joined: Sep 14, 2015
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Jun 25, 2016 - 02:37 |
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Well, what are you expecting? I don't mean this as a defensive "what do you expect?" but a genuine question of what level of interaction are you expecting?
I play mostly in box and there's various different types of coach in there - there are those who are utterly silent aside from pleasantries like "gl & hf, grats, gg, bye" (for whatever reason, we're not all native speakers), there are those who will not even say that, there are those who will wax loquacious both pre, during and post-game, there are those who will comment on dice when unfavourable, there are those who will comment on dice of all kinds, and there are those who seemingly find dice chatter of any kind a bit distasteful.
This list of course not exhaustive and incredibly subject to perception as well as my own experience.
I do try to acknowledge dice myself. The thing is, when I have terrible dice myself, I sometimes comment in game, and sometimes don't. The same is true for having great dice. But it has to be part of a greater dialogue - otherwise it has the potential to come across as whining or gloating (depending on the direction) from an otherwise taciturn opponent.
So really for me, it's not more dice chat I'd want, it's just more chat in general - it's much easier to slip in that you think someone is being unlucky, or you're thinking you're having a game beloved of nuffle himself if you've been keeping a running dialogue during the match. Equally so, you can get a gauge of your opponent's mentality, and from that an understanding of what sort of comments might be acceptable in game, and which others may lead to you finding yourself blanked, or even worse, in a disagreement.
But at the same time we have to remember this is a multinational and multilingual site, not everyone retains the same understanding of norms and values in-game, and not everyone is able to communicate those thoughts as easily. |
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TortalVor
Joined: Jan 23, 2016
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Jun 25, 2016 - 02:47 |
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DangerousOne, I would really suggest trying ranked. I've played 35 games now and out of that I would only say 2 weren't very congenial. They were deathly silence and my opponet ended as soon as the game ended but as mentioned, they may not have been very comfortable in English. |
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DarthPhysicist
Joined: Jun 14, 2015
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Jun 25, 2016 - 02:51 |
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What you might be interpreting as rudeness, might be an attempt at respect. Sometimes people get upset in the exact opposite way; it comes across as condescending when the winner starts talking about your bad luck. It's a tightrope and I'm just gonna take a swing here and assume that the typical FUMBBLer is not a social butterfly in the regular world... I know that's certainly true of me! To expect your opponent to know how to give you the right shoulder to cry on may be asking a bit too much!  Perhaps poke some fun at your own misfortune and you might get a good response. When I'm losing, I start talking about my players as if they were real, which helps loosen the other guy up a bit... but sometimes, even then not. Then again, some people are not totally comfortable jabbering away with me in English during a match... just saying. |
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pythrr
Joined: Mar 07, 2006
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Jun 25, 2016 - 02:58 |
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harden up, son. |
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hoyleyboy
Joined: May 19, 2010
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Jun 25, 2016 - 03:12 |
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Commenting on dice whether for or against is weak and a little insulting to your opponent.
I'd rather say 'well played, you beat me' after a game than say 'gg, lucker'.
Dice do play a part but the better player wins over many games. |
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MonkeyMan576
Joined: Jul 02, 2008
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Jun 25, 2016 - 03:30 |
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I try to avoid talking about dice, unless someone is killed and i issue an lukewarm apology. Bad dice are like losing players, it happens in bloodbowl, and whining about it doesn't prove anything to anyone. |
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Zlefin
Joined: Apr 14, 2005
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Jun 25, 2016 - 03:38 |
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I generally empathize if the other person complains (and is justified in complaining)
otherwise I won't comment on luck unless it's for death/perm injury.
Overall I've found the courtesy level on fumbbl to be quite reasonable. |
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kummo
Joined: Mar 29, 2016
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Jun 25, 2016 - 03:57 |
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If doubleskulls or snake-eyes happens once or twice.. i wouldn't say much.. maybe like "oops" or "unfortunate" (doesn't matter which one of us get's them). I usually try to talk about something else like about their team, developing style, where they found fumbbl.. either about this game or about their life in general.
But after those bad rolls has happened 3+ times in a row clearly affecting the gameplay i kinda have to say something don't i?
If i got these dice myself then i try not to complain.. maybe say something about how hard it's to defend/attack with these dice.. or then i pick something good from the pitch to mention like "at least my lineman is on your way" or "at least bounce was good".. "at least he didn't die". By chatting more about other topics rather than saying only that i think i make clear that i don't focus on bad dicing.. just mention it and then the normal topic hopefully continues.
But if opponent got those dice i usually say something like "i don't like how dices decide some of our games" or say something good about their tactics. And again.. i hope that the normal non-dice-centered topic continues.
I haven
t played blackbox but i have played ranked and leagues. And most of my opponents have been really good winner and losers. I'd say that out of my 100+ games of experience maybe less than 5 were whiners.. less than 10 were silent.. more than 30 were helpful and more than 70 were friendly.
In league matches i only have found 1 whiner and seeing his other games as spectator it seems he just had bad day when playing against me (he even won that match so dunno why he was crying about dices.. he didn't fail any critical rolls) and the community really shines in leagues. I'd recommend those for anyone who have some time to dedicate for at least 1 season (1 to 3 months.. usually 1 game per week or 1 game per 10 days.. if you play only 1 league then it's not that much of a deal to schedule that match). |
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Wizfall
Joined: Dec 09, 2011
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Jun 25, 2016 - 08:43 |
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| TheDangerousOne wrote: | | The fact is, in bloodbowl, in most games one side will be luckier than the other, and no matter how good the decisions made are, if the dice are bad, you lose. |
I disagree with this statement and do think it's a part of your "issue".
I consider the luck factor being huge only when both coach's skills AND teams' strength are roughly on the same level (so a minority of game like 25%).
Otherwise it will not have any coach with win rate above 70%.
I find this obvious when watching replays and i'm able to feel it myself clearly when playing both against inferior or superior coaches.
A slight coach's skill differential can go a long way and the amount of bad dices a significantly better coach can suck up before losing is truly impressive(if teams strength are about the same which is a big if).
TLTR : the better coach win most of the time and luck is much less a factor than BB skill when the match-up is equilibrate team-wise. |
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harvestmouse
Joined: May 13, 2007
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Jun 25, 2016 - 08:59 |
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Didn't we have an almost identical post a few months ago? The OP is pretty much saying "If you have the good dice (which most games do) I expect you to admit that and basically concede 'Yeah I won because of the dice'.
I have hard time accepting various points from the OP are correct. e.g. most games have ill feelings, most players here have a lack of understanding, most games are decided by dice. Plus few other things if I'm nitpicking.
It's polite trolling that meant to needle. The fact his record is poor adds to the trolling factor. I could feel some empathy if there was better foundation of an argument. As it is, it feels BS trolling to me. Probably a bit of truth, but not much.
Sooner we stop commenting and send the topic away, the better. |
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Garion
Joined: Aug 19, 2009
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Jun 25, 2016 - 09:52 |
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Some people take it all far far too seriously. just have fun and ignore idiots |
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