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MrCushtie



Joined: Aug 10, 2018

Post 22 Posted: Sep 02, 2018 - 06:01 Reply with quote Back to top

So I've read a few threads now on the pros and cons of using Goblins, and as I'm coming into my third match in a row against Chaos Dwarfs, I'm realising I'm doing my initial formation wrong. Thinking about worst case scenario I'm trying to avoid:

1. Dwarfs win the coin toss and receive first.
2. First couple of turns if I run my secret weapons, they get battered or taken out.
3. If I don't run my secret weapons, the Dwarfs smash their way to a 7th turn TD. I get one turn with my secret weapons and then lose them for the second half. Sad
4. Second half I have two trolls and five goblins left, and by half way through the second half the pitch is probably clear...

So I'm assuming if I'm running Goblins on defence to start, I want some kind of damage limitation.

Any thoughts on the following:

Cowardly scum!
Trolls up front on the LOS with a goblin between them to stop Really Stupid. 8 more goblins hanging around in the back of the field, hiding from getting bashed but close enough to run up and foul en masse if a troll can knock somebody down. (Great for damage limitation for the first couple of turns, but nobody should wimp out like that and sooner or later the Dwarfs will go straight past the centre of the pitch and beat the other 8 goblins into the ground, then score on the 7th turn, and I'm back to the nightmare situation I described)

Screen screen screen
Trolls up front with the fanatic between them, one goblin just behind to hold off on Really Stupid.
Then try to screen the chainsaw behind a second line of goblins (so he doesn't get blitzed on the first turn and can run through and blitz somebody).
This is going to be weak on the wings, but gives me the chance to do some damage early on (as it's going to be hard to take out the trolls or the fanatics in the first turn, so they can do some damage)

Or as per https://fumbbl.com/help:Defensive+Setups would you run one of the anti-foul formations first (so you have lots of room to run forward and foul in turn?) I'm assuming whatever I do, I don't want to run a wide formation on the LOS, because my trolls are bound to get stupid if I don't have them adjacent to a goblin.

Mess with their heads
Put the whole team on the LOS. Leave my opponent freaked out because nobody would be that dumb so there has to be some evil masterplan he's ignorant of, and hope he's too confused to remember to activate any players on the first turn.[/b]
Sp00keh



Joined: Dec 06, 2011

Post   Posted: Sep 02, 2018 - 09:34 Reply with quote Back to top

Probably D1
You can spread out if you like because you will probably have 4-5 unskilled goblin to make the screen

D1 just uses 3 screeners
jdm



Joined: Nov 30, 2011

Post   Posted: Sep 02, 2018 - 10:50 Reply with quote Back to top

If you have a sidestepper, I like deploying them on the sidelines, 1 square back from LOS (maybe 2 if you fear the quick snap). Either your opponent will over commit attempting to surf them, or you can force a dwarf wide to mark them and then surf that dorf yourself.

Otherwise it's probably goblins on the LOS (as you don't want your trolls to get surrounded and knocked down to the point where you have to be reckless to get them the assist to stand. Sidesteppers are great here too, to deny the second or third hit.

Third option is both trolls on the LOS, goblin between them and then fanatic directly behind the goblin. Hopefully that would deny the follow up and you could maybe use your fanatic to push the trolls into a block position

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PurpleChest



Joined: Oct 25, 2003

Post   Posted: Sep 02, 2018 - 11:33
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Welcome to FUMBBL.

You have chosen a rod for your own back. The very best BB players struggle to have winning records with Goblins, but almost everyone has fun with them.

Use of Weapons.
Not only an excellent Iain M Banks book, but the key to goblin play.

IT DOESN'T MATTER WHO THE OPPONENT IS, OR THE COIN TOSS, USE YOUR WEAPONS.

Because they wont be there otherwise. Any half decent player is going to look at the weapons on the bench and say to themselves 'well, they're not going to face me'. So no matter the kick, or the opponent, you have to 'win' the first half. 'win' can sometimes mean be 1-0 down but have broken enough of their team that you can score for 1-1 at least.

If you lose the toss and have to kick and you are without bribes I only have to injure/KO 2 goblins in the first half to mean any weapons will likely have only a single turn on the pitch. So field them, field them all (unless there is one that will just die and be of no use)

Fanatic:
Starts on the Line with Trolls either side. Unless they have enough guard/strength to take all three on. Even then there is a good argument that tying that many players up hitting the durable trolls and arguably expendable fanatic is a god use of resource that will leave holes elsewhere to pressure the ball/Ballcarrier.
Also the fanatic is so slow that putting him anywhere else is likely to marginalise him totally. In play let himdo his thing and dominate a good area of pitch. He doesnt want to get so far ahead that he has no support as a troll 2 spaces away is ideal, cancelling assists on one flank and making him very hard to hit with str8, which is what people will tend to want to hit him with. Because of this he shoudn't always charge straight into enemies but consider, especially with his last step, where will he likely end, is it safe, and can he be supported.

He can use team rerolls, making GFI an option, especially to hit smushy things like hobgobs and Minotards.

Looney:
Possibly the easiest hit and casualty for your opponent. So needs to be unblitzable on kick off, in case of Blitz Kick off result I do mean ANY kick off.
Against CD his use is marginal, and likely his best use to you is keep him back and try to get hobgoblin blitzes or fouls with him.
While he is terrible vs AV9, he also ha a psychological impact, even AV9 players hate being chainsawed, despite the decent odds for them of being fine and getting to hit back.
Yet he is still unlikely to have a great game vs CD. So he has to be considered expendable, hence fouling is a good option, but also knowing the opponent is massively likely to want to hit him can at times open up options where he is a diversion.

Bombadier:
I hate rookie bombers. they are not good. get them hail mary pass, and use them as artillery from the backfield and have have great option. But as rookies, they tend to suck.
Sadly he is probably at his best against slow av9 teams, so sometimes you have to try to get utility from the sucky sucker. He needs screening on kick off, as he will also be hit if possible, but he also needs to be near enough to the action that a short, or ideally quick, pass gets the bomb into the opposition. Good luck with that.

the star Bomber is 20K more, comes with accurate, and has the right stuff skill as well (handy on other races teams without ttm otions). For a league team though, the rostered bombadier is clearly better value as he stays.

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kummo



Joined: Mar 29, 2016

Post   Posted: Sep 02, 2018 - 12:56 Reply with quote Back to top

I don't like blitzing with chainsaw that much. I feel like he is much better at fouling actually. Maybe when he gets dodge and is blitzing armor 7 or worse ballcarrier, then i might use saw to blitz.. but it would be during a turn i can score in.

The fact that he is SW means that unless you had bribes means that you planned to use him during one drive anyway so if he gets caught with the foul - it's still fine, he probably did his job (unless snakes). Blitz av9 blocker down, add 2-3 assists (against blocker screen its hard to have more but if oppo was nice enough to give you space then go agead and add 5 assists when possible and doesn't give oppo too much room to move into).

+6 is much worse on blitz than +3 on 2dice foul Wink

Edit: Also when you blitz a standing target and fail to break armor... you give free block. If you got a guy down and get to foul, you are more likely to break armor (so the target you are fouling can't blitz you) and probably can screen saw in a way no one else can be blitz saw either (at least not easily).
ArrestedDevelopment



Joined: Sep 14, 2015

Post   Posted: Sep 02, 2018 - 15:42 Reply with quote Back to top

The saw is probably better at fouling (especially if you get a double for DP), but the fact is, he is the only member of a rookie goblin team who gets to roll for AV on a 2+ vs a player reasonably of your choice, and he doesn't care about the ST of the opponent.

Considering you've a squad of block-less st2 peasants, this is about as reliable as it gets for a while.


PC's advice is generally good, and I might go one step further than him and say that the "best" (in terms of results) goblin team probably has 0-1 weapons. It is also the least fun.
That said I would almost always drop the bomma, because if you're not willing to use the team RR bomber dribblesnot is always better than a rookie, and if you ARE, but you're also willing to try to RR his loner, he's also *still* better.

I probably wouldn't LOS the fanatic vs anything with block though - -2d is easy and only has to happen once.

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MrCushtie



Joined: Aug 10, 2018

Post   Posted: Sep 02, 2018 - 17:13 Reply with quote Back to top

Thanks for all the advice. My third gobbo vs chaos dwarf match is tomorrow, so will report back on how all this went...

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MrCushtie



Joined: Aug 10, 2018

Post   Posted: Sep 03, 2018 - 17:38 Reply with quote Back to top

Well that was fun; won the cointoss and enjoyed a really lucky streak of fouls, whirling fanatics and chainsaws. The fanatic is great in the middle - my opponent set up as wide as possible on the LOS (I assume to avoid giving too many targets to the fanatic) which left him pretty wide open. Poor ball skills (why did I ever try to throw?) meant I held the ball for less than 1 turn in total, but to get 5 of their places off the pitch before the second half, and to get a kill (commuted by an apothecary) was great.

And only losing 1-0 was pretty awesome too.
ArrestedDevelopment



Joined: Sep 14, 2015

Post   Posted: Sep 03, 2018 - 17:46 Reply with quote Back to top

Why on earth did you pass?? Could've been a glorious win.

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Grod



Joined: Sep 30, 2003

Post   Posted: Sep 05, 2018 - 02:19 Reply with quote Back to top

Against Dwarves, your best strategy is to pack the LOS with as many goblins as possible. Make sure your press contact with Dwarves every turn so they have few options available to them (just blocking you back). Keep the trolls back from the LOS and don't engage any Dwarves with them. With luck your next Dwarf opponent will leave them alone. The chainsaw is best used as a threat but without actually attacking anyone and risking a 1/6 blow back. Certainly don't foul it will get you out of position.

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GAZZATROT



Joined: Apr 26, 2009

Post   Posted: Sep 05, 2018 - 12:59 Reply with quote Back to top

(Great Question..... Great Answers)

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MrCushtie



Joined: Aug 10, 2018

Post   Posted: Sep 06, 2018 - 02:57 Reply with quote Back to top

That pass was a panicked reaction to actually getting the ball, and feeling rather exposed on the flank. Honestly, that game was so fluke I don't think I deserved to hold to 1-0 down

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