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Poll
Do you de- / not activate if only 4 player draw
Yes
4%
 4%  [ 3 ]
No
89%
 89%  [ 67 ]
Yes unless desperate to play
6%
 6%  [ 5 ]
Total Votes : 75


Rbthma



Joined: Jan 14, 2009

Post   Posted: Feb 13, 2019 - 23:51 Reply with quote Back to top

MrCushtie wrote:
Tell you what's unfair - I minmaxed my goblins down to 820 TV (with help from HandyKaufman and his magical saw) and then couldn't get scheduled at all. The rest of you should have sacked your players and come down to my level.


I have some 900TV flings looking for a match, so let's just activate at the same time Smile
MrCushtie



Joined: Aug 10, 2018

Post   Posted: Feb 13, 2019 - 23:54 Reply with quote Back to top

Only In It For The Glory have clawed their way up to 1,290 TV, but don't worry - I'm sure one game against some chorfs and they'll be down below 1,000 again. The Black Box Bottom Feeders Battle will commence soon ! Smile
Arktoris



Joined: Feb 16, 2004

Post   Posted: Feb 14, 2019 - 00:19 Reply with quote Back to top

MattDakka wrote:
The problem of Ranked is you have to pick/get picked and you can't play if your offers keep to get refused, not my cup of tea.


so make better offers. problem solved.

so far the evidence shows it is your cup of tea.

Black Box is where you accept any game, no matter what the teams/coaches etc.

Ranked is where you filter out lopsided games or unpleasant coaches. And you get to decide what that means.

so far...you are advocating for the latter.

conclusion: You're a Ranked coach trapped in a Black Box body.

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mrt1212



Joined: Feb 26, 2013

Post   Posted: Feb 14, 2019 - 01:17 Reply with quote Back to top

Arktoris wrote:
MattDakka wrote:
The problem of Ranked is you have to pick/get picked and you can't play if your offers keep to get refused, not my cup of tea.


so make better offers. problem solved.

so far the evidence shows it is your cup of tea.

Black Box is where you accept any game, no matter what the teams/coaches etc.

Ranked is where you filter out lopsided games or unpleasant coaches. And you get to decide what that means.

so far...you are advocating for the latter.

conclusion: You're a Ranked coach trapped in a Black Box body.


Truer words have never been spoken.
Jim_Fear



Joined: May 02, 2014

Post   Posted: Feb 14, 2019 - 02:21 Reply with quote Back to top

I wish I could collectively hug all of you on this thread. Well, not all of you. Most of you.
koadah



Joined: Mar 30, 2005

Post   Posted: Feb 14, 2019 - 10:37 Reply with quote Back to top

Arktoris wrote:

conclusion: You're a Ranked coach trapped in a Black Box body.


Even though I do think that Matt is nuts, that is still nonsense. Mr. Green

Box is weighted against long-lived teams that take a beating.

It is probably better than during CPOMB times, (who would have guessed,) but you still looking at a possible;e downward spiral.

Take a beating. Get a big TV disadvantage. Get another beating. etc.

Maybe you get more beatings playing "to win at all costs" rather than "playing to build".

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ArrestedDevelopment



Joined: Sep 14, 2015

Post   Posted: Feb 14, 2019 - 10:46 Reply with quote Back to top

koadah wrote:

Box is weighted against long-lived teams that take a beating.



Not my experience at all in the last 2 years.

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Christer



Joined: Aug 02, 2003

Post   Posted: Feb 14, 2019 - 10:56
FUMBBL Staff
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koadah wrote:
Box is weighted against long-lived teams that take a beating.

It is probably better than during CPOMB times, (who would have guessed,) but you still looking at a possible;e downward spiral.

Take a beating. Get a big TV disadvantage. Get another beating. etc.


It's important to remember that I am of the belief that teams in the blackbox don't have an inherent right to succeed. In an environment like this, teams *should* (in my opinion) at some point get bashed to bits and have the coach choose between a long and hard recovery process or simply shelve the team and start over.

Recovering a team that has been beat up is supposed to be difficult.
Chainsaw



Joined: Aug 31, 2005

Post   Posted: Feb 14, 2019 - 10:56 Reply with quote Back to top

Cloggy wrote:
Am I the only one who finds it totally hilarious to have the OP complaining about being in a matchup he doesn't find fun?

The irony seems lost on most people. If anything this matchup was a tiny bit of karma in which sm is still in massive debt to.

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koadah



Joined: Mar 30, 2005

Post   Posted: Feb 14, 2019 - 11:34 Reply with quote Back to top

ArrestedDevelopment wrote:
koadah wrote:

Box is weighted against long-lived teams that take a beating.



Not my experience at all in the last 2 years.


That is good. Though I notice that you have a lot of teams and only chaos and Nurgle are over 1800.

Christer wrote:

It's important to remember that I am of the belief that teams in the blackbox don't have an inherent right to succeed. In an environment like this, teams *should* (in my opinion) at some point get bashed to bits and have the coach choose between a long and hard recovery process or simply shelve the team and start over.

Recovering a team that has been beat up is supposed to be difficult.


Fair enough, but that is not TV matching for those teams. IMO that encourages coaches to restart rather than continue.

It looks like a 30 game then restart league. If you don't restart you're thrown to the wolves.

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ArrestedDevelopment



Joined: Sep 14, 2015

Post   Posted: Feb 14, 2019 - 11:52 Reply with quote Back to top

games like this happen in tournies Wink https://fumbbl.com/p/match?id=4006031

(next match in box was even tv)

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Rawlf



Joined: Jul 15, 2007

Post   Posted: Feb 14, 2019 - 12:14 Reply with quote Back to top

koadah wrote:

It looks like a 30 game then restart league. If you don't restart you're thrown to the wolves.


Please stop it.
With all due respect to your good reputation here, this is just not true. The box keeps bringing up big elven teams and old teams, too.
Rebuilding teams is absolutely possible, as you get even games every time. And tv-mismatched games are rather helpful, as wandering apos can help you avoid losing more key players (at the cost of losing the game maybe) until your mngs are back.
This is very different in Leagues, where your next game is not even just because you took a beating. And you cant afford to just go with a loss either.

I must say it, you havn't played in the box since 2014, but only in League.
Please stop conjuring up a stereotype that just isnt true.
Christer



Joined: Aug 02, 2003

Post   Posted: Feb 14, 2019 - 12:22
FUMBBL Staff
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koadah wrote:
It looks like a 30 game then restart league. If you don't restart you're thrown to the wolves.


To each their own. Some people would call it a challenge to keep a team running after 30 matches. A challenge that is part of the box experience and way of playing the game.
Harad



Joined: May 11, 2014

Post   Posted: Feb 14, 2019 - 12:22 Reply with quote Back to top

koadah wrote:
ArrestedDevelopment wrote:
koadah wrote:

Box is weighted against long-lived teams that take a beating.



Not my experience at all in the last 2 years.


That is good. Though I notice that you have a lot of teams and only chaos and Nurgle are over 1800.

Christer wrote:

It's important to remember that I am of the belief that teams in the blackbox don't have an inherent right to succeed. In an environment like this, teams *should* (in my opinion) at some point get bashed to bits and have the coach choose between a long and hard recovery process or simply shelve the team and start over.

Recovering a team that has been beat up is supposed to be difficult.


Fair enough, but that is not TV matching for those teams. IMO that encourages coaches to restart rather than continue.

It looks like a 30 game then restart league. If you don't restart you're thrown to the wolves.


Completely not my experience. My teams relatively easily grow up to 2000+. Rare for me to have to restart a team as recovery isn't that difficult (most of my retired box teams are from other reasons such as not knowing what I was doing when I started and those that are not were from catastrophic failures in the first 10 games not from some large team destroying them). I could of course be the exception but anecdotally I see a lot of examples of other people finding the exact same thing.

Edit - In fact, I must say that this thread, like so many others, seems to contain a lot of people taking a set of conditions, applying their form of logic and making extremely strong conclusions. Unsurprisingly these conclusions often fit with their agenda or preconceived view. I think it would be amazing if people tested their conclusions more against the evidence or at a minimum posted their conclusions as questions for others to bring evidence. I am sure I have been guilty of the same thing so this isn't a criticism but more an appeal to better thinking, be it whether we are assuming the purpose of blackbox to fit our desires, assuming what makes a matchup fair or not or assuming what teams will exist in the blackbox.
koadah



Joined: Mar 30, 2005

Post   Posted: Feb 14, 2019 - 13:49 Reply with quote Back to top

I did say "It looks like", "possible downward spiral."

But OK. I'll leave you guys to it. It is no longer my kind of place.

I was mainly responding to

Quote:
Conclusion: You're a Ranked coach trapped in a Black Box body.


I've played a lot of Box a lot more recently than I've played a lot of Ranked. Wink

Edit: Since Jan 2018 the average games played by a box team is 7. Of teams that played more than 10 games, the average is 23.

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