38 coaches online • Server time: 19:11
Forum Chat
Log in
Recent Forum Topics goto Post Creating a custom to...goto Post Secret League Americ...goto Post DOTP Season 4
SearchSearch 
Post new topic   Reply to topic
View previous topic Log in to check your private messages View next topic
pokrjax



Joined: Dec 01, 2014

Post   Posted: Apr 23, 2019 - 01:22 Reply with quote Back to top

ph0enyx13 wrote:
Lill-Leif wrote:
Quote:
A Black Orc could well be a Lino when you're looking at the pitch (or vice versa), which is no good when you're trying to concentrate
.

Thank God I am not the only one having problems to distinguish the different positionals. I usually spend most part of the games against orc temas nowadays asking questions like "That is a lineman, yes?"


Aren't you supposed to paint the base different colors and add highlights of that color to the model so this stuff doesn't happen? (along with, you know numbering them in the correct order)


That's what I do (when I get round to paiting teams) and opponents really appreciate it.
Christy



Joined: Jul 19, 2007

Post   Posted: Apr 23, 2019 - 01:27 Reply with quote Back to top

I hate skill rings and different coloured bases (each to their own of course though). Just makes them look like playing pieces instead of a team (I get they are playing pieces but I don't want them to look that way).

Incorporated the recommended colour schemes into my Skaven theme (blitzers have some red cloth and metallics are reddish gold instead of just gold, throwers have whitish hair etc. and I made sure poses are unique.

My plan for skills also includes having magnets on the bases when I finish them for different coloured skulls. It might be hard to see or take away from from the aesthetic but I will test it. As soon as I get round to pinning the resin ones (I did not like working with resin, especially as my first attempt just rubbed a load of paint off).
Lill-Leif



Joined: Nov 17, 2005

Post   Posted: Apr 23, 2019 - 13:09 Reply with quote Back to top

pokrjax wrote:
ph0enyx13 wrote:
Lill-Leif wrote:
Quote:
A Black Orc could well be a Lino when you're looking at the pitch (or vice versa), which is no good when you're trying to concentrate
.

Thank God I am not the only one having problems to distinguish the different positionals. I usually spend most part of the games against orc temas nowadays asking questions like "That is a lineman, yes?"


Aren't you supposed to paint the base different colors and add highlights of that color to the model so this stuff doesn't happen? (along with, you know numbering them in the correct order)


That's what I do (when I get round to paiting teams) and opponents really appreciate it.


Well, the world is filled with people that does not do what they are supposed to.
gallahbrains



Joined: Jan 06, 2006

Post   Posted: Apr 24, 2019 - 09:51 Reply with quote Back to top

Lord_Bromhidrosis wrote:
gallahbrains wrote:

I really think you should be able to paint a miniature so as you can tell it apart from the others. Black Orcs should be ... well, black. I'd also do something else to make them stand out more than just much darker skin tone. For example, paint their armour in mostly metallics and just one shoulder piece and the helmet in the team colour, while everyone else has their armour all int he team colour (or something similar).


It's extremely helpful.

My TT Nurgle are nearly done and the pestigors have got their claws painted in different colours. Most of them've even already gotten nicknames from the other coaches, for instance, Mighty Blue (guess), Red Elf and Green Elf (+AG both). I have two bloater builds - annoying unbudging roadblocks and annoying killers, and for those roles I've given them different coloured boots (dark grey for the first, brown for the latter) and, within those uniforms, different glove colours to distinguish between them. Football players (footie football, not Blood Bowl for pussies) also have distinguishing features all over, like tats, unique shoes, hair styles.

Last Fri I played the local Humans coach, who's given each of his players the same red-and-blue uniform. No distinguishing features whatsoever. Granted, it looks immaculate, but... After 22 games he still doesn't recognise his players from one another, and he still has to check the player numbers on his team sheet to check which skills they have all the time (except for the ogre which I killed dead lol). After three turns he knew exactly which of my Pestigors was which and which of my Bloaters he had to avoid base contact with, and he could spot them in a nanosecond.


Sounds like you're doing it right. Although it also sounds like your opposition is reaping the benefit more than you are! Haha. Better if he had no idea who to avoid base contact with. Wink Yeah but I get it, you also have the advantage of knowing who is who on your team and being able to visualize your moves better.

I like your idea, although I never thought to take it that far. I was thinking more just by position. But I think I'll copy you and add one little unique touch per model. It's a good idea, even if it's just a distinctive decoration on the base or something.
gallahbrains



Joined: Jan 06, 2006

Post   Posted: Apr 24, 2019 - 09:59 Reply with quote Back to top

Christy wrote:
I hate skill rings and different coloured bases (each to their own of course though). Just makes them look like playing pieces instead of a team (I get they are playing pieces but I don't want them to look that way).

Incorporated the recommended colour schemes into my Skaven theme (blitzers have some red cloth and metallics are reddish gold instead of just gold, throwers have whitish hair etc. and I made sure poses are unique.

My plan for skills also includes having magnets on the bases when I finish them for different coloured skulls. It might be hard to see or take away from from the aesthetic but I will test it. As soon as I get round to pinning the resin ones (I did not like working with resin, especially as my first attempt just rubbed a load of paint off).

I agree ... I'm not painting multi-coloured bases sorry. I spend enough time painting my miniatures without ruining them with garish bases that, like you say, makes them look like weird individual playing pieces, and not a united team.

In fact, when I paint a mini, I usually paint the bases a few different colours to see how it works with the rest of the colours on the model before settling on one. For the Halflings in the other thread, I started with a light-green border (similar to the grass), then brown, then glossy-block and finally settled on matt black. But whatever I settle on in the end, the whole team will have the same.

This stuff matters. Laughing I'm not having rainbow spew bases.

I do think you should make an effort to make it obvious which players are which positions though. "Disguising" a blitzer as a lineman for example is just not on, and nor should be taking advantage of the fact that GW didn't do a great job on that front with some teams.

The skill rings are a good idea, but meh. I'm not keen on the aesthetics there either for the same reason.

I think you should be able to keep track of it yourself anyway, that's part of the game. In real life ("footie football, not Bloodbowl for pussies" as Lord_Brom puts it), it's not like the players are running around with an "awesome tackler" sign on their back. In BloodBowl you can just look at the opposition team-sheet, or better yet, make a copy of it before the game.
Purplegoo



Joined: Mar 23, 2006

Post   Posted: Apr 24, 2019 - 11:18 Reply with quote Back to top

(I’ve edited for language a couple of times, please keep it clean)

While the ‘hobby’ side of BB is important to people and I absolutely appreciate that aesthetics are a big part of the immersion, it is a game first and foremost. It’s absolutely crap to be presented with an unmarked team (except for numbers) by an opponent and be expected to refer to a roster sheet throughout the match for what model has what skills. Imagine playing FUMBBL and only having numbers and the team page to refer to (no marking, no mousing over sprites); it would be hugely irritating.

While skill rings, base painting or whatever other means of quick identification you prefer might look a bit rubbish to you and ruin your paint job (I don’t think they do, actually, but to each their own), immediate identification of where skills are is hugely important to the overall experience of playing the game. It’s very rare this happens, but opponents that refuse to make some effort to mark their models really wind me up. I suppose it’s fair enough early in a league or if playing a newcomer, but I’d expect even slightly experienced coaches to do the bare minimum (rubber bands, bottle caps, anything!).
gallahbrains



Joined: Jan 06, 2006

Post   Posted: Apr 24, 2019 - 12:25 Reply with quote Back to top

Yeah, I understand what you're saying and if I were playing in some huge official tournament (it's unlikely I ever will), I would just use skill-rings or something if everyone else felt really strongly about that, just because it's not worth causing a fuss.

Personally however, I think part of the game is familiarising yourself with the opponent's team, studying their roster and coming up with a plan around that. I don't see why that information should be "force fed" to the opposition coach. In a way we're a bit spoiled by things like FUMBBL and the BB2 computer game ... we expect it for granted now! I liked LB's idea of making each model a bit unique so they're easily identifiable, but - assuming each model is unique and easily distinguishable - I don't think anyone should have to advertise each player's skills on the actual miniatures unless they personally want to, especially when they're available on the team roster sheet.

Sorry about the language. I'll keep it clean. Smile
pokrjax



Joined: Dec 01, 2014

Post   Posted: Apr 24, 2019 - 13:20 Reply with quote Back to top

Here are my Wood Elves for those interested in seeing how it looks if you have models that get quite difficult to differentiate otherwise. Granted they're all painted exactly the same and there were many other ways to go, like different hair or sash colours, but I guess I personally quite like the 'playing pieces' stye! Also I bought them second hand pre painted and just changed the hair and the base colours. The tree is my own.

Image
pokrjax



Joined: Dec 01, 2014

Post   Posted: Apr 24, 2019 - 13:27 Reply with quote Back to top

gallahbrains wrote:
Personally however, I think part of the game is familiarising yourself with the opponent's team, studying their roster and coming up with a plan around that. I don't see why that information should be "force fed" to the opposition coach. In a way we're a bit spoiled by things like FUMBBL and the BB2 computer game ... we expect it for granted now! I liked LB's idea of making each model a bit unique so they're easily identifiable, but - assuming each model is unique and easily distinguishable - I don't think anyone should have to advertise each player's skills on the actual miniatures unless they personally want to, especially when they're available on the team roster sheet.


I totally disagree with this. It reminds me of playing Monopoly as a kid and being really quiet about landing on another player's property so you can get out of paying them, quietly trying to get the next player to roll the dice then smirking because it's too late and the turn has passed. Great way to fall out with your family.

If my opponent is about to unwittingly dodge away from a DT player or something I usually point it out to them because I want to play (and hopefully win) a game where both players are making decisions to the best of their ability with all the information that should be available to them.
gallahbrains



Joined: Jan 06, 2006

Post   Posted: Apr 24, 2019 - 14:54 Reply with quote Back to top

Fair enough, I guess it's pretty subjective. FWIW I certainly wouldn't encourage "tricking" people. I definitely think it's a good idea to make your miniatures unique, and - if required - paint them in a way that makes their type very obvious.

Anyway, each to their own.

You didn't link the image right btw, I fixed it for you here. They look nice! Great work mate.

pokrjax's Wood Elves:

Image
Eczemabeard



Joined: Aug 25, 2018

Post   Posted: Apr 24, 2019 - 15:17 Reply with quote Back to top

gallahbrains wrote:

Sounds like you're doing it right. Although it also sounds like your opposition is reaping the benefit more than you are! Haha. Better if he had no idea who to avoid base contact with. Wink
[•••]
Personally however, I think part of the game is familiarising yourself with the opponent's team, studying their roster and coming up with a plan around that. I don't see why that information should be "force fed" to the opposition coach.


I just stuck a giant's skull on the base of the ogre slaying Pestigor. I want him to be dam sure which of my players made him salty AF!

(I always print out and study opponents' team rosters so I tend to know pretty well which player numbers I want to off as soon as possible and why, sort of a murder by numbers. Worked pretty well as he didn't have a guard piece left at turn 12)

gallahbrains wrote:

Yeah but I get it, you also have the advantage of knowing who is who on your team and being able to visualize your moves better.


I do it for myself primarily. That's the most important thing.

gallahbrains wrote:

But I think I'll copy you and add one little unique touch per model. It's a good idea, even if it's just a distinctive decoration on the base or something.


I'm not into the aesthetics of garish bases or skill rings either. I paint the minis for me, not for anyone else.

Skulls. Skulls on the bases for every kill (I'll try to share a pic later on)
spubbbba



Joined: Jul 31, 2006

Post   Posted: Apr 24, 2019 - 20:58 Reply with quote Back to top

GW models have always had scale creep, and their Blood Bowl range is just following that. 3rd party models were doing this as well when BB was ignored by GW.
'm sure in part it is to make older models obsolete, but they also want them to be compatible with the 40K and AoS ranges for conversions. Another factor in the improving technology, in particular with plastics, which allows for larger, more detailed models with a range of dynamic poses.

Larger and more impressive models do appeal to gamers and collectors. WHFB was really struggling for years as many armies ended up being lots of very samey looking ranked units. Only the front line of these units actually mattered and the rest were effectively wound counters. You can see in AoS the armies have lots of big showcase models and smaller, more varied units and AoS is selling really well.

When looking at models I distinguish between the concept and technical precision. The 2nd edition range did have some really cool ideas and unique designs, in particular the elves and skaven. Being made of soft lead they tended to appear a bit "squishy", this would be further accentuated by the models getting their edges flattened by being bashed about if left unpainted in a box for a while.

The 3rd edition range is really poor in my opinion, in fact all GW stuff at that time is pretty bad. It wasn't helped by many of the team too closely following the WHFB equivalent armies. Being made of pewter the sculpts themselves were a little technically better and more robust.

There were a few teams and models released for 4th/5th edition and these varied a lot. Some like Zara, Ramtut and the humans were pretty cool, but they also had one GW's worst ever sculpts in the shape of Hubris.

Whilst the ideas for the new teams are a bit hit and miss the poses and variety really help. Them having alternative parts and being made of plastic makes conversions much easier. The modular elf union team in particular was a great concept and I'd love if they were compatible with the future high and wood elf teams

I do think it can be hard to tell some of the positionals apart on the new range. The blitzers in particular are a problem, but lots of other ranges suffer from this too. 2nd edition got round it by having one a single pose for every play in that position. But just look at the 2nd edition dwarf blockers, blitzers and linemen. I wonder how much of this is down to familiarity, after all some of these teams are over 20 years old.

Painting can help with distinguishing positionals as well. I think some of the new GW linemen get painted with too much decoration on their kit and this would be better kept to the positionals and themed.

I actually wrote an article for the NAF site about just this subject. In it I make suggestions for a number of ways to differentiate the various player types from the linemen and each other.

_________________
British or British based and looking to join a League?
Then check out theWhite Isle Fringe
Eczemabeard



Joined: Aug 25, 2018

Post   Posted: Apr 24, 2019 - 23:22 Reply with quote Back to top

Quote:

Armour/Equipment – Many players have more of less armour depending on their role and it helps to show this on the model, human catchers shouldn’t wear more armour than dwarf blockers for instance.


Yeah I love how my Pestigors have less armour than 3rd edition Norse and definitely less than human linos, yet have the same AV, while my borderline streaker Rotters have even less (puss encrusted trousers and maybe shirt, tiny shoulder pad) and still the same AV as the Pestigors.
gallahbrains



Joined: Jan 06, 2006

Post   Posted: May 09, 2019 - 09:05 Reply with quote Back to top

I heard a few people talking about how difficult the Orcs are to distinguish in with the new blood bowl models ... what about the humans?

I was just looking at the team I bought (out of curiosity, some time back) and I couldn't for the life of me pick out who are supposed to be the blitzers. In fact, I had a guess and realized I'd got it wrong! (it tells you who is who on the back of the pack). There is literally no difference in them!

I'm just not a fan of these models at all. I think the other teams all look pretty bad too. Over-stylized, over-armoured, not individual enough for their player-types, all the sculpts are trying to be way too "dynamic" and the models just way too large.

Damn I wish either GW just stuck with the 28mm models, or everyone else did and forced them to go back. Sad

See if you can figure it out if you don't know...

Image
pedro_fgomes



Joined: Mar 25, 2018

Post   Posted: May 09, 2019 - 10:47 Reply with quote Back to top

Well the blizters have the bigger crests on their helmets Smile

I use coloured braces representing skills, and although some coaches do not like to use them, I find it so useful both for me and my opponent. You can't reasonably expect your opponent to know exactly who has what skills based on small numbers and a team sheet.

Using decals to identify players is quite useful too. Regarding differtn sized miniatures, I guess if you don't mind too much you can even mix them up a little. I bought 2 Blitzers and an Assassin from Star Player miniatures and they are slightly smaller than the GW ones. I call them Elflings, but I don't mind too much Smile

_________________
Image[/url]


Last edited by pedro_fgomes on May 09, 2019 - 10:53; edited 3 times in total
Display posts from previous:     
 Jump to:   
All times are GMT + 1 Hour
Post new topic   Reply to topic
View previous topic Log in to check your private messages View next topic