48 coaches online • Server time: 15:44
Forum Chat
Log in
Recent Forum Topics goto Post Creating a custom to...goto Post Secret League Americ...goto Post DOTP Season 4
SearchSearch 
Post new topic   This topic is locked: you cannot edit posts or make replies.
View previous topic Log in to check your private messages View next topic
Throweck



Joined: Feb 23, 2013

Post   Posted: May 08, 2019 - 22:10 Reply with quote Back to top

MattDakka wrote:
Throweck wrote:

You have brought this up before. I was the admin that got it wrong, this was resolved with an apology months ago. However, it's clearly making you lose sleep at night still.

It will be resolved only when my team will have his concession with CR, win rate, SPPs gain and "Games played" with one more win. I don't lose sleep for it at all, just I will never forget the incident. I brought this up again because related to the discussion.


This is really quite sad, would you like me to pick you toys back up?

Throweck wrote:
If it's records that are important to you, make a note of it in your coach bio.

MattDakka wrote:
Already did it weeks ago:
https://fumbbl.com/p/team?team_id=676283


Again, see above.

"Games Played" entry should display 1 additional win (due to opponent leaving the game on December 25, 2018 without conceding). The opponent has not been punished (no retired team, no banned account) and ignored me and the admin staff. The game was cancelled by admin on January 7, 2019 against my express will. No compensation has been offered to me for this wrong. Never forget, never forgive. - Really? This is pathetic.

Throweck wrote:
It it's because you believe the offending coach should be hanged, drawn and quartered then it's time to get over that. Again, JUST BECAUSE YOU DON'T SEE ANY PUNISHMENT, DOESN'T MEAN IT DIDN'T HAPPEN. I'm tired of people not realising that now.

MattDakka wrote:
That's a strawman, I just don't want to have my teams stuck for days waiting for guys unable to schedule a game via server time or simply leaving a game never to rejoin it, the coach who didn't leave the game should not be the penalized guy. I do care about my time and don't like time wasters, that doesn't mean I want them killed, hanged, drawn, quartered etc.
I understand that my thought is not shared by the community, amen, quantity of opinions doesn't necessarily mean quality of opinion.


Agreed, just as one man's opinion doesn't make him right.

_________________
FUMBBL Podcast Donate to the FUMBBL Podcast!
ramchop



Joined: Oct 12, 2013

Post   Posted: May 08, 2019 - 22:24
FUMBBL Staff
Reply with quote Back to top

MattDakka, you're passionate about Box this is clear.

In my view there are two aspects of Box relevant to your post
#1) "purity", no cherry picking, no shirking
#2) Instant play. No mucking about with scheduling

Unfortunately there is a disconnect between these two ideals on a no show, or a dropped game.

You have gone on a bit about punishment. But what about reward? Should a halfling coach who has had 2 no shows be "rewarded" with 2 insta-wins? Why should a win be dished out for a non-game? It's hard enough to win with flings in Box. I would not want any of my goblin wins to be granted in this way. I'm proud of the few wins I've got with this team.

You want a win because a drawn opponent is too chickenshit to play you? Maybe Ranked teams should be given wins whenever someone doesn't check their box. Ludicrous.

There are different views to how a no-show should be handled. Some think #2 carries the most weight, so unschedule promptly. Others feel #1 is more important, so try to get the game played.

What is most important to you?

You've brushed over what happened to the game that prompted you to start this thread. The two coaches communicated. Reasons were given for the no-show, and the GAME GOT PLAYED!
mrt1212



Joined: Feb 26, 2013

Post   Posted: May 08, 2019 - 22:36 Reply with quote Back to top

In fact, now that I think about it, I feel like this idea would punish me specifically. I have belly issues from time to time. Usually, I activate, go and use the restroom so I don't have to during a game. Sometimes I am in the restroom for upwards of 10-15 minutes because of my sensitive belly. There is the very real potential for me to personally get screwed on account of bodily issues where not even a hint of malice is involved.

Most reasonable people would be willing to accommodate this but under Dakka's proposal, there is nothing to accommodate, it's fully automatic. So one less stalwart activating in Box to navigate a completely arbitrary system that doesn't have to exist for the benefit of 2 malcontent coaches who have people issues consistently.

Naw.
awambawamb



Joined: Feb 17, 2008

Post   Posted: May 08, 2019 - 22:45 Reply with quote Back to top

MattDakka wrote:
Already did it weeks ago:
https://fumbbl.com/p/team?team_id=676283


impressive.

_________________
"la virtù sta nel cielo e nella terra, ma anche nelle nuvole e nelle stelle"

Image
JellyBelly



Joined: Jul 08, 2009

Post   Posted: May 08, 2019 - 23:29 Reply with quote Back to top

MattDakka wrote:
Throweck wrote:

You have brought this up before. I was the admin that got it wrong, this was resolved with an apology months ago. However, it's clearly making you lose sleep at night still.

It will be resolved only when my team will have his concession with CR, win rate, SPPs gain and "Games played" with one more win. I don't lose sleep for it at all, just I will never forget the incident. I brought this up again because related to the discussion.


From the FUMBBL rules:

FUMBBL Rules wrote:

Disconnections

  • If your opponent is disconnected during a game please wait for 15 minutes to see if he or she returns.
  • If your opponent does not return within this period of time you can, if you want, call the game off and move on to find another game. If you do so, the started game is completely abandoned together with any SPPs or injuries that had taken place. If you want to complete the game, you can not use the team in other games until the current game has been resolved. Either way, you should send a PM to the opponent to state your decision to him/her.
  • Should you choose to call off a game, contact a staff member to assist you freeing up your team for further play.

  • If you get disconnected you must, upon returning to the site, contact your opponent in order to explain what happened and offer to resume the game. If your opponent is not online or not contactable when you return, you must send a PM with the offer and try to schedule a time to resume it. If there is no reply to this PM within 24 hours of sending it, you may call off the game as explained above and you should send another PM telling your opponent of your decision.

  • If the server goes offline or if the remaining coach leaves before the stated 15 minutes both coaches are considered to have disconnected and should act as explained above.


I can't see anything there about being awarded a win if your opponent d/cs and doesn't return within a specified time. It says they are required to contact the other person when they return to the site, but doesn't specify what the punishment will be if they don't.

Which means, it is up to admin discretion (and their decision is final).

_________________
"Opinions are like arseholes, everybody's got them and they all stink." - The protagonist, Fallout 2

"Go for the eyes, Boo! Go for the eyes!!" Razz


Last edited by JellyBelly on May 08, 2019 - 23:29; edited 1 time in total
FinnDiesel



Joined: Mar 07, 2018

Post   Posted: May 08, 2019 - 23:29 Reply with quote Back to top

Jim_Fear wrote:
Any idea how large a Fumbbl donation would be necessary to have a user permanently banned?
Asking for a friend.
My friend had the same question, how funny!

_________________
Image
MattDakka



Joined: Oct 09, 2007

Post   Posted: May 09, 2019 - 14:27 Reply with quote Back to top

Well, if site rules don't clearly state that after 3 days the non-leaver coach should get a win they should be modified. Users must know in advance what happens if they abandon a game never to return and the exact consequences, "game will be decided" is vague.
In reference to what happened to me (i.e. a guy left the game and after 13 days the game got cancelled) according to Christer himself I should have got the win after 3 days (because Box division), but this is not possible at the moment due to a bug and, since this issue has not high priority on Christer's implementations lists, I didn't get the win. Not trying to bring the issue up again, I understand it is not possible to award concessions, but this doesn't mean that I'm satisfied because in the future the issue could happen again (history repeats itself). I wrote the leaver's name on a black list, so if I got matched again with him I would not start the game.

Anyway, I'll try to put the no-show issue in another way:
2 coaches activate in the Box, coach A (no-show) and coach B.

coach A doesn't show in a X period of time (be it 10 minutes or 3 hours or another amount of time), we can discuss about the length if 10 minutes is too short, but I suggested 10 minutes so the next activation is not missed.

coach B shows up to the game, coach A doesn't in the X period of time.
Now, we can think that A either didn't connect on purpose or he had a genuine issue, but FOR SURE the coach B is honest and he's following the rules and the procedure.
Why should be the coach B, who is FOR SURE the guy following the rules, be penalized by sending PMs, wasting time, bothering admins, creating turmoil etc. due to lack of automated disengage because coach A for some unknown reason we can't check didn't connect? And mind, even assuming coach B just wants to disengage his team and he's happy to cancel the game, he has to wait for the admin to free the team, this is generally not fast (not blaming the admins, I just want to point out that this time delay will probably make coach B miss the next activation with the stuck team).

If I have to choose between the 2 coaches, I want to reward the coach who is in game at the scheduled time. That doesn't necessarily mean that coach A is a nasty criminal, maybe he genuinely forgot to join, maybe he didn't for some reason, but for sure coach B should not be bothered by delay and by the not automated unlocking procedure.
mrt1212



Joined: Feb 26, 2013

Post   Posted: May 09, 2019 - 16:19 Reply with quote Back to top

If you think extending effort is punishment, then we see the faulty foundation of this house of cards.
awambawamb



Joined: Feb 17, 2008

Post   Posted: May 09, 2019 - 17:36 Reply with quote Back to top

MattDakka wrote:
Well, if site rules don't clearly state that after 3 days the non-leaver coach should get a win they should be modified. Users must know in advance what happens if they abandon a game never to return and the exact consequences, "game will be decided" is vague.

It's very detailed: the outcome of the game will be decided by the admin. The exact consequences are a punishment that could go from a warning to a ban, a retirement of the team or a combination of the above based on many factors. One is, for sure, how obnoxious the user is and how he's interacting with the admins.

MattDakka wrote:
I wrote the leaver's name on a black list, so if I got matched again with him I would not start the game.

This goes against the rules of the Blackbox division, but I think you're grown up enough to face the outcome of your actions.


MattDakka wrote:
Why should be the coach B, who is FOR SURE the guy following the rules, be penalized by sending PMs, wasting time, bothering admins, creating turmoil etc.

You should play solo. I'm afraid that if you can't understand the feedback you've got from the clear vast majority of coaches replying in your thread, you're way beyond recover. Do you understand that at best people won't bother with you anymore?

Who's going to play with you besides random pairings in the box?

BTW, some days ago I've had to schedule a WIL game with one of our fellow Tileans, darkjul. No language barrier, and the scheduling happened within 4 messages. Talking about sending PMs, wasting time, bothering admins, creating turmoil etc.

...and look at all this. they're all trying to help you, until someone will lock this thread and throw it into the void.

I hope all this was all an elaborate ruse to make the biggest April's Fool prank we've seen on FUMBBL.

_________________
"la virtù sta nel cielo e nella terra, ma anche nelle nuvole e nelle stelle"

Image
Antithesisoftime



Joined: Aug 20, 2014

Post   Posted: May 09, 2019 - 18:03 Reply with quote Back to top

MattDakka wrote:

If I have to choose between the 2 coaches, I want to reward the coach who is in game at the scheduled time. That doesn't necessarily mean that coach A is a nasty criminal, maybe he genuinely forgot to join, maybe he didn't for some reason, but for sure coach B should not be bothered by delay and by the not automated unlocking procedure.

A Wild MattDakka appears:
Image
MenonaLoco



Joined: Jan 05, 2016

Post   Posted: May 09, 2019 - 18:39 Reply with quote Back to top

"Now, we can think that A either didn't connect on purpose or he had a genuine issue, but FOR SURE the coach B is honest and he's following the rules and the procedure.
Why should be the coach B, who is FOR SURE the guy following the rules, be penalized by sending PMs, wasting time, bothering admins, creating turmoil etc. due to lack of automated disengage because coach A for some unknown reason we can't check didn't connect?"

Penalized? Omg, what kind of first world problem is this: sending PMs, communicating, what a beating... No righteous human being should suffer such punishment. It would be way better to just assume the worst and punish all no-showers all the same, their motive doesn't matter, because coach B is MattDakka.

For real, how much time and fingers-power was wasted in your thread right here? It's at least worth a docen "no-showers", right? This is running for a few days now - are there even as many no-showers in the meantime? Do you even "suffer" a docen no-showers a week?
JellyBelly



Joined: Jul 08, 2009

Post   Posted: May 09, 2019 - 23:23 Reply with quote Back to top

MenonaLoco wrote:
For real, how much time and fingers-power was wasted in your thread right here? It's at least worth a docen "no-showers", right? This is running for a few days now - are there even as many no-showers in the meantime? Do you even "suffer" a docen no-showers a week?


That guy in anti's meme looks like he's had no-shower ... Wink Laughing

_________________
"Opinions are like arseholes, everybody's got them and they all stink." - The protagonist, Fallout 2

"Go for the eyes, Boo! Go for the eyes!!" Razz
JellyBelly



Joined: Jul 08, 2009

Post   Posted: May 09, 2019 - 23:29 Reply with quote Back to top

MattDakka wrote:
Well, if site rules don't clearly state that after 3 days the non-leaver coach should get a win they should be modified. Users must know in advance what happens if they abandon a game never to return and the exact consequences, "game will be decided" is vague.
In reference to what happened to me (i.e. a guy left the game and after 13 days the game got cancelled) according to Christer himself I should have got the win after 3 days (because Box division), but this is not possible at the moment due to a bug and, since this issue has not high priority on Christer's implementations lists, I didn't get the win.


It seems very strange to me that there would be some unwritten rule for the Box that:

a) Is not stated on the site rules page and only you seem to know about.
b) Apparently can't be enforced at the moment anyway.

I think it would be good if one of the admins could conclusively confirm or deny if this is actually site policy. I play in the Box quite a lot and I have never heard of it.

_________________
"Opinions are like arseholes, everybody's got them and they all stink." - The protagonist, Fallout 2

"Go for the eyes, Boo! Go for the eyes!!" Razz
mrt1212



Joined: Feb 26, 2013

Post   Posted: May 09, 2019 - 23:41 Reply with quote Back to top

JellyBelly wrote:
MenonaLoco wrote:
For real, how much time and fingers-power was wasted in your thread right here? It's at least worth a docen "no-showers", right? This is running for a few days now - are there even as many no-showers in the meantime? Do you even "suffer" a docen no-showers a week?


That guy in anti's meme looks like he's had no-shower ... Wink Laughing


Poor Scumbag Steve - his reputation precedes him.
Jim_Fear



Joined: May 02, 2014

Post   Posted: May 10, 2019 - 00:15 Reply with quote Back to top

What did Steve ever do to get compared to MattDakka? That's cold.
Display posts from previous:     
 Jump to:   
All times are GMT + 1 Hour
Post new topic   This topic is locked: you cannot edit posts or make replies.
View previous topic Log in to check your private messages View next topic