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koadah



Joined: Mar 30, 2005

Post   Posted: Jun 02, 2020 - 21:41 Reply with quote Back to top

I'm not against the idea as it adds information for people who want it.
I would guess that it is not too difficult to do as the information to calculate it is already present.
It wouldn't add too much clutter.

I guess that for a lot of people win% for a team doesn't have any value. It is not something that they look for.

You can tell from a glance at w/l/d whether win% is good/bad/roughly even.
Tournament wins is more interesting to me.

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MattDakka



Joined: Oct 09, 2007

Post   Posted: Jun 02, 2020 - 21:47 Reply with quote Back to top

If for people win % doesn't have any value, so is Games Played then (personally I don't think it has no value, but as there is a Games Played entry, why not improving it?).
Win Rate % is just a "summarized" Games Played value easier to check.
I'm not asking anybody to suddenly be obsessed by win rate, just to have a Win Rate entry on team page automatically calculated.
JanMattys



Joined: Feb 29, 2004

Post   Posted: Jun 02, 2020 - 22:33 Reply with quote Back to top

MattDakka wrote:
If you don't care about win rate % well, having it on your team pages will not harm your eyes


If this reasoning gets repeated enough times, it does. Too much data clutters the page.

That said, I'm not against the request "per se" (after all, the NAF Website itself provides a Win Ratio for each race), it's just that it seems redundant. The thing you are looking for is already there in a different form, and web ergonomics suggest that in terms of readability less is more whenever possible. Giving out the same info twice seems undesirable.

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Last edited by JanMattys on Jun 02, 2020 - 22:42; edited 1 time in total
MattDakka



Joined: Oct 09, 2007

Post   Posted: Jun 02, 2020 - 22:41 Reply with quote Back to top

I didn't ask to add 1000 entries, just one, the Win Rate % and it would not clutter the page.
It's not redundant, because Games Played entry doesn't provide at first glance the same performance information of Win Rate.
If we talk about "less is more", TD difference or Cas difference are not very useful or important to define a team's performance (they are used just as tiebreakers in private leagues and to calculate some NAF tournement points as far as I know), I'd say secondary in comparison to Win Rate information, yet they are on the page.
So, we can assume that "less is more" is not the driving philosophy behind the creation of the team page.


Last edited by MattDakka on Jun 02, 2020 - 23:47; edited 2 times in total
JanMattys



Joined: Feb 29, 2004

Post   Posted: Jun 02, 2020 - 22:44 Reply with quote Back to top

MattDakka wrote:
I didn't ask to add 1000 entries, just one


Everybody does. That was kind of my point.

But ok, I get that you want it. I'd say it's not needed (personally, I can easily tell a 30% win, a 50% win and a 70% win apart at first glance, and I couldn't care less about the difference between 45.6% and 47.2%) but to each his own I guess.

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JanMattys



Joined: Feb 29, 2004

Post   Posted: Jun 02, 2020 - 22:56 Reply with quote Back to top

MattDakka wrote:
If we talk about "less is more", TD difference or Cas difference are not very useful or important to define a team's performance (they are used just as tiebreakers in private leagues and to calculate some NAF tournement points as far as I know), I'd say secondary in comparison to Win Rate information, yet they are on the page.


The stats are not only there to evaluate a team performance. Why do you assume such a thing as obvious?
Also, those two stats you mention can't be found anywhere else on the team page so they provide new info, while a Win% does not. It's just a way to rephrase something that is already there.

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MattDakka



Joined: Oct 09, 2007

Post   Posted: Jun 02, 2020 - 22:58 Reply with quote Back to top

I have been on this site for a while now, and I don't remember people asking many features for the team page.
Well if you can tell exactly the win rate at first glance with hundreds, not just 2 or 3, games played you have a computer mind (I doubt somebody can do it instantly and accurately without using a calculator but let's assume you can).
I'm asking this feature for the majority of the users unable to calculate the win rate as fast as you.
I can calculate it as well, so I will sleep anyway without the feature, but having it automatically calculated would be nice and handy, not just for me, but for other people as well.

Well, at this stage looks like your sport is not BB anymore, but bothering me on the forums for the sake of it.
I don't have to persuade you nor my time has to be wasted arguing with you, Christer will decide.
jdm



Joined: Nov 30, 2011

Post   Posted: Jun 02, 2020 - 23:02 Reply with quote Back to top

56/97*100 does not equal 70.1

What do you mean by win percentage? The percentage of games that a team wins?

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JanMattys



Joined: Feb 29, 2004

Post   Posted: Jun 02, 2020 - 23:03 Reply with quote Back to top

Look, it seems like I'm out to oppose you at all costs, and it's not like that. These threads exist to propose a feature and discuss it. It is awesome that you had this idea, and it is awesome that other people are giving you their insight about it. You don't necessarily need to convince everyone that you are right and they are wrong Smile

I for one don't feel the need for such a feature, and it seems like some other coaches who posted think it is redundant as well. But I'm not the one who will decide to implement it. If other coaches come and give their thumb up to your idea, and/or if the powers-that-be find it brilliant, then more power to you. Smile

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JanMattys



Joined: Feb 29, 2004

Post   Posted: Jun 02, 2020 - 23:05 Reply with quote Back to top

EDITED:
I must be tired. The NAF site also uses a win=1 and tie=0.5 system.
Just as Matt and just as Fumbbl.

So yeah, it seems it's

(W x 100) + (T x 50) / GamesPlayed

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Last edited by JanMattys on Jun 02, 2020 - 23:17; edited 2 times in total
MattDakka



Joined: Oct 09, 2007

Post   Posted: Jun 02, 2020 - 23:09 Reply with quote Back to top

jdmickleburgh wrote:
56/97*100 does not equal 70.1

What do you mean by win percentage? The percentage of games that a team wins?


I mean this:

[(wins * 100) + (ties * 50)] / number of games played.

It's the same formula used to calculate coach's win rate and races' win rate on FUMBBL (it's rounded to the closest number).

And I suggested this way to calculate the win rate because it's exactly the same win rate criteria adopted on the site (the only difference is I'd like 4 digits, for example 55.43 %, without rounding to the closest, for the team page specific win rate).
4 digits make the win rate more accurate for comparison purpose between teams.

By the way, even the NAF site, not just I and FUMBBL, bothers to keep track of the futile win rate, who would have ever imagined that?!
Chivite



Joined: Sep 04, 2017

Post   Posted: Jun 02, 2020 - 23:50 Reply with quote Back to top

I would like this feature tbh.

Not in a mad panic for it, but it is not a bad idea. It does not make things worse, just offers more info for those who like statistics.
Dalfort



Joined: Jun 23, 2008

Post   Posted: Jun 03, 2020 - 01:25 Reply with quote Back to top

I love stats as most people know, I would not like to see this replaced though but if a percentage was added to the Games Played then where do I sign? Razz

Example: 10 (4/2/4) 50%

This would work for me.

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Uber



Joined: Mar 22, 2004

Post   Posted: Jun 14, 2020 - 23:37 Reply with quote Back to top

Great idea Matt, I would also like this. I also assume it wouldn't be that costly development wise. Just be careful not to divide by 0!

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MattDakka



Joined: Oct 09, 2007

Post   Posted: Jun 14, 2020 - 23:56 Reply with quote Back to top

Thanks, yes, I'm not asking to calculate a rocket's trajectory, it should not need a great coding effort.
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