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Poll
Should FUMBBL adopt 2 minute turns as default?
Yes
13%
 13%  [ 20 ]
No
73%
 73%  [ 111 ]
Only in certain leagues
13%
 13%  [ 20 ]
Total Votes : 151


JanMattys



Joined: Feb 29, 2004

Post   Posted: Aug 22, 2020 - 13:33 Reply with quote Back to top

MattDakka wrote:
If there is no time limit, better not to play at all.

You know, you bring some reasonable points here and there, then you drop lines like the one above and I honestly cannot bring myself to wrestle against such a level of stubborness.
You're the poster boy for "vocal zealot" if I've ever seen one.

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MattDakka



Joined: Oct 09, 2007

Post   Posted: Aug 22, 2020 - 14:38 Reply with quote Back to top

koadah wrote:
If there isn't a rule about playing while working, there should be. There is a rule about playing multiple opponents.

Though, in leagues & tournaments, using working hours may be the only way to get a game done. Inform the opponent of the situation before starting the match.

If a rule against playing from work were introduced, people would just write they have a "real life emergency" instead of "boss is calling me in the office".
Easily exploitable.
koadah



Joined: Mar 30, 2005

Post   Posted: Aug 22, 2020 - 14:45 Reply with quote Back to top

JanMattys wrote:
koadah wrote:
Who is "we" Jan?

Your "we" is not my "we".


I thought that my statement was broad enough not to bring this objection into play. I was evidently wrong and apparently the timeout option has defined your fumbbl experience so far. My bad.


Quote:
we barely if ever felt like it was there


Did I say that it "defined my experience"? It was obviously there and part of it.

The 4 minute rule has been there since I started Fumbbl even if there wasn't a timeout button.

Some of my turns do go close to 4 minutes and some go over. So do my opponents.

Christer mentioned new coaches who had just bought the new box.
So, they may have never heard of a 4 minute rule.
Are we going to have a site rule that is not in the rule book? Button or no.

What are people going to say if we ask them to speed it up a bit? There has to be some guide time for people to aim for.

If you don't want the button, you could remove it now.

JanMattys wrote:
MattDakka wrote:
If there is no time limit, better not to play at all.

You know, you bring some reasonable points here and there, then you drop lines like the one above and I honestly cannot bring myself to wrestle against such a level of stubborness.
You're the poster boy for "vocal zealot" if I've ever seen one.


I agree. He's a "vocal zealot". Twisted Evil
But there can come a point where the game is no longer one that you wish to play..

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Dominik



Joined: Oct 29, 2004

Post   Posted: Aug 22, 2020 - 15:33 Reply with quote Back to top

MattDakka wrote:

Either play when the postman doesn't work, for example in the evening, or play when you can be disturbed, and face the consequences.

So just because the postman can knock on my door anytime between 9am to 4pm I should not play at all or accept the timeout with a smile?
MisterA



Joined: Mar 29, 2020

Post   Posted: Aug 22, 2020 - 15:50 Reply with quote Back to top

Love this game, and mostly i'd say I'm done in 2mins...
But there are times I'm sat here head scratching because my play just fell to pieces in the last 2 blocks of my opponents turn, or somethings glitches and a player isn't actually where he appears to be and i need to reboot, or its suddenly my turn again because of a TO and I find myself surprised when the 4mins is done... Or the door goes and a delivery has turned up, but its in the van over the road, and he needs a signature etc.
IMO 4mins works well enough, but make it 2 or 3 and your almost asking for players to be frustrated with a slower turn
Shraaaag



Joined: Feb 15, 2004

Post   Posted: Aug 22, 2020 - 16:14 Reply with quote Back to top

MisterA wrote:
[...]But there are times I'm sat here head scratching because my play just fell to pieces in the last 2 blocks of my opponents turn, or somethings glitches and a player isn't actually where he appears to be and i need to reboot, or its suddenly my turn again because of a TO and I find myself surprised when the 4mins is done...[...]


If you experiene technical problems aand have to reboot, I assume that goes under the rules of disconnection and not time limit.
And in most instances where you have to step away from the computer, you still can close the game window and your opponent will have to treat it as a disconnect.

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Doofr



Joined: Nov 04, 2015

Post   Posted: Aug 22, 2020 - 16:56 Reply with quote Back to top

Dominik wrote:
MattDakka wrote:

Either play when the postman doesn't work, for example in the evening, or play when you can be disturbed, and face the consequences.

So just because the postman can knock on my door anytime between 9am to 4pm I should not play at all or accept the timeout with a smile?


Dont bother arguing with Dakka ....its pointless, im amaze that some people continue to do it . Wink

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MattDakka



Joined: Oct 09, 2007

Post   Posted: Aug 22, 2020 - 17:03 Reply with quote Back to top

Since you asked: the smile is not required to accept the time out, you are free to be upset.
The important thing is that you don't waste opponent's time, how you take the time out is not important.
JanMattys



Joined: Feb 29, 2004

Post   Posted: Aug 22, 2020 - 19:46 Reply with quote Back to top

MattDakka wrote:
Since you asked: the smile is not required to accept the time out, you are free to be upset.
The important thing is that you don't waste opponent's time, how you take the time out is not important.


Man you must be a blast to play against.

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MattDakka



Joined: Oct 09, 2007

Post   Posted: Aug 22, 2020 - 19:50 Reply with quote Back to top

You'll never know it since you don't play in the Box.
Mingoose



Joined: Jul 28, 2016

Post   Posted: Aug 22, 2020 - 20:36 Reply with quote Back to top

MattDakka wrote:
You'll never know it since you don't play in the Box.


Why do you play in the box? It clearly isn’t the most competitive place to play because there is no victory condition, no goal to speak of. Just one off random games. I mean you can try to take pride in your win percentage or CR but those are such subjective things I couldn’t imagine caring one bit about them. To me. [B] is a casual division of random matchmaking. Nothing more. If I were a truly competitive person I would play leagues or only build for majors. Those have defined victory conditions and a level playing field for everyone.

Honestly taking pride in a [B] win is like bragging about your undergraduate degree. Big whoop, anyone can get one.
MattDakka



Joined: Oct 09, 2007

Post   Posted: Aug 22, 2020 - 20:44 Reply with quote Back to top

I play in the Box because I consider it the best division on FUMBBL for one-off competitive games, since you can't choose your opponent, the opponent team and you can't avoid bad match-ups and good opponents.

No victory condition? Winning a game is not a clear victory condition?
The goals are: winning as many games as possible, having a high win rate, having high CR, get on top 1 of the Box rankings: https://fumbbl.com/FUMBBL.php?page=coaches&order=&d=10&r=0. Rankings are not subjective, they are based on actual game results, not made of thin air or personal opinions.

If you are not a truly competitive person (weird, considering how efficient is your Chaos Renegade team I faced yesterday: https://fumbbl.com/p/team?id=966777, for sure not a roster made for fun, but to win), probably you can't understand that every Box game can be competitive, if you play trying to win it (or to achieve the most realistically achievable result for that match-up: for example a tie with Amazons vs Dwarfs can be considered a win).

If you think that it's easy playing in the Box, I challenge you to be a Box Legend.
If you become a Box Legend, then I will agree with you that is like bragging about your undergraduate degree.
As long as you are not a Box Legend, I will just ignore your statement.
Talking is easy, being good is harder.
Mingoose



Joined: Jul 28, 2016

Post   Posted: Aug 22, 2020 - 21:15 Reply with quote Back to top

Lulz, hit a nerve there. CR is indeed random, because you may be facing your opponents box trophy flings and get unearned CR from it. Or you may face a person with low CR that happens to have one deadly team and got three blitzes to destroy you. Beating random opponents is an achievement of random scale. Aggregating this makes it even more meaningless. As for my renegades team it actually is built for fun. Otherwise you would see claw as well Very Happy

Honestly your attitude is just polar opposite of mine, and I assume we have very different lives. If one loss can destroy your day and you cannot fathom a life where interruptions are constant and unavoidable, you obviously live a life very different from my own with four kids and exactly zero minutes of uninterrupted time. I helped my daughter with homework four times during our match. I helped another kid with homework while pooping yesterday. This is what most adult lives look like. Now that doesn’t mean that we have unlimited turns. It just means that when a person does go over the 4 minutes, I don’t automatically assume they are gaming me for some ill gotten CR.

Pretty derailed at this point so let me make a relevant contribution. I like time limits of some sort, I don’t think anyone will be that adversely affected by their removal. This is a mountain made out of an anthill on a molehill.
MattDakka



Joined: Oct 09, 2007

Post   Posted: Aug 22, 2020 - 21:37 Reply with quote Back to top

Mingoose wrote:
Lulz, hit a nerve there. CR is indeed random, because you may be facing your opponents box trophy flings and get unearned CR from it. Or you may face a person with low CR that happens to have one deadly team and got three blitzes to destroy you. Beating random opponents is an achievement of random scale.

Over time the "statistical noise" produced by the odd games vs Halflings, vs a noob coach (who will not give you many CR points if you beat him, while he will gain many more CR points in case of tie/win), by the easy match-up (say Dwarfs vs Amazons), the dicing in which you lose 4 players in 2 turns will address itself.
This is the beauty of statistics, over time (the more time and games played, the better) even considering the odd matches, it will still provide a fairly accurate measure of your skill, unless you keep on playing tier 3 teams or fun builds, but that's up to you.
If you don't play competitively, of course you will not find the Box competitive.

Mingoose wrote:

you obviously live a life very different from my own with four kids and exactly zero minutes of uninterrupted time. I helped my daughter with homework four times during our match.

Again, if you are not committed and focused on the game, don't blame the Box for not being competitive.
You are free to live your life as you wish, never talked about it.
I talk about the game, your life is off-topic and frankly I'm not interested in it. This site is about BB and online gameplay of the game, not "the corner of the family men's lives". If your kids require so many attentions, maybe it's better to focus on them and not on a silly game which is not so important for you, life is made of priorities. Anyway, you chose to have kids, you have to accept the consequences, they are not my kids, but yours. I'm not responsible for the choices you made.

Mingoose wrote:
It just means that when a person does go over the 4 minutes, I don’t automatically assume they are gaming me for some ill gotten CR.

I don't assume he's gaming. He might do it or not, but for sure he's wasting my time. Not here to waste more time than necessary to play vs a guy who could be dicing me, or even could be losing the game, but taking 2 hours to play a turn, just to give me few CR points or 0 after such massive time waste.
Time wasting is not acceptable in my book, and it should not be in yours as well, considering that your life is very busy due to your important babysitter's tasks.
If a game finishes sooner, you have more spare time to take care of your kids, family etc.
Have you ever thought that I could have something to do in my life as well and therefore I don't want to be locked in a game more time than necessary?


Last edited by MattDakka on Aug 22, 2020 - 21:47; edited 1 time in total
Mingoose



Joined: Jul 28, 2016

Post   Posted: Aug 22, 2020 - 21:47 Reply with quote Back to top

MattDakka wrote:

Have you ever thought that I could have something to do in my life as well and therefore I don't want to be locked in a game more time than necessary?


Honestly no, it seems fairly clear from your posts and habits that your life is indeed unimportant. Back to "babysitting", lulz.
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