erzkanzler
Joined: Dec 05, 2005
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 Posted:
Nov 23, 2006 - 23:14 |
 
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Well I have a rather selfish request, but mishaps those who hate the color green will appreciate a thread that specifically deals with how to maximise winning chances when playing against this race in various situations.
I have not really been a very active player on fumbbl, so I clearly lack experience, regardless of the time I am officially signed up - and worse still, I don't even play table top (sparing the very odd one off game with my basic BB box every once a year or so).
Yet, I have been issued a challenge by a friend of mine who has started a blood bowl league of his own, which he wants me to join. Needless to say that he considers himself to be the king of bloodbowl and just needs to be proven wrong, as I can take a beating, but personal affairs demand that he must fail in this one match! He is playing orcs and apparently willing to take on any team that approximately matches his in terms of TS (still LRB4). The thing is, I don't know yet what his team strength will be once the time of battle has neared, but I need to prepare for this regardless.
So: What are the greatest menaces to any orc team at differing team strengths? Which teams would fit the "orcmenace" profile and what team development suits the task best? What ingame strategy should apply then to malm or outplay them? I will gladly incorporate your input into all practice sessions with which I try to prepare for the big game.
How can you, just for one game, beat the orcs at all costs? I want nothing more than the best possible starting chance to be leading one TD after 16 consecutive turns. (for the true orc hater - I am willing to crush them beyond the hopes of recovery in the process as well, but I will not sacrifice the winning TD for that)
Thanks a bunch,
your's truly |
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Macavity
Joined: Nov 23, 2004
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Nov 23, 2006 - 23:20 |
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Speed. The last things Orcs usually do is leave guards back for their thrower/kick return dude. Invade the backfield with numbers, eliminate the cage before it starts, and try to get a defensive TD. |
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When I became a man I put away childish things, including the fear of childishness and the desire to be very grown up. -C.S. Lewis |
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fishgeekted
Joined: Oct 07, 2005
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Nov 23, 2006 - 23:32 |
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As a rookie orc coach with a lot of losses, the #1 killer for me in how I lose my games is simple ball handling. Whatever you do, focus on the ball. Make the orc coach, handoff, pass, pick it up, etc. Orcs hate the ball, especially young orc teams. Now that seems easy enough im sure, but keep in mind, how many blocks, moves, etc are not towards the ball and are just simple moves to knock a pointless player down. When I say focus on the ball, every move you make, should be towards forcing your opponent to do something with the ball other than have one orc carry it from end to end.
Make the orcs juggle that pigskin!
Disclaimer: I'm still a rookie orc coach, so buyer beware! |
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f0rd
Joined: Jun 23, 2004
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Nov 23, 2006 - 23:49 |
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i would say speed agility and blodge-ss, those nasty WE are my worst enemies |
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Macavity
Joined: Nov 23, 2004
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Nov 24, 2006 - 00:13 |
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WE? By the time they have Blodge, you should have tackle! |
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When I became a man I put away childish things, including the fear of childishness and the desire to be very grown up. -C.S. Lewis |
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erzkanzler
Joined: Dec 05, 2005
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Nov 24, 2006 - 00:31 |
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Which leads to my original question:
Are WE really the team to take on orcs at lower team ratings? lacking skills I am afraid they break just too easily and are not quite yet the scoring threat they pose at high TR. As Macavity pointed out, once the elves get blodge the orcs should have tackle. By then I am quite certain to also have developed a strip ball WD, but nothing really fancy apart from that. (I am guessing at the 160 TS area here).
So - amazons for example are considered a pain of an opponent at low TR, because they start with a lot of skills. Amazons face a potentially desastrous outcome against dwarfes none the less, clearly there is a mismatch, if any exists.
As orcs lack obvious weaknesses (compared to more specialized teams) what are weaknesses regardless and how to exploit them?
Talking elves, are Pro elves the way to go on low to medium TR, relying on passing game and the positionals? Or are the woodelves with their superior speed really the worst to take on for an orc team. How about skaven and gutter runners in that regard? Or even Chaos dwarwes, relying on the bull centaurs only for speed.
And how do all these factors change once one advances in TR? |
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Melmoth
Joined: May 05, 2004
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Nov 24, 2006 - 00:38 |
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Prinz
Joined: Oct 01, 2005
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Nov 24, 2006 - 00:43 |
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I agree. Skaven.
And, if all you care about is winning, develop a few cheesy one-turners. |
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Optihut
Joined: Dec 16, 2004
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Nov 24, 2006 - 00:46 |
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I'd go with Darkelves, they are the best team and orcs are merely second best. |
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JanMattys
Joined: Feb 29, 2004
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Nov 24, 2006 - 00:58 |
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1- Don't be scared of blocks. Tie the Bobs up with linos, and use the fast runners to go for the ball. Tie up strong ones and tacklers. |
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Bacillen
Joined: Aug 03, 2005
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Nov 24, 2006 - 01:00 |
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As an Orc coach currently struggling in the SWL premier at the moment I have to say that the teams I have the most trouble with are elves (esp. the AV8 kinds) and lizardmen.
Why ?
Partly because they're fast, but mainly because they tend to have sidestepping diving tacklers (which has a nasty effect on my ball movement) and basically if my MB, blockling blitzers don't splatter those players quickly...I lose. And it is incredible and infurating how often 2+ dice rerolled "Mighty Blockle" blitzes on those players don't work !
I would also say that the very worst way to beat orcs is to play Dwarves or pretty much any other bashy team.
Half decent Orcs can outhit and outmove and outskill most other bashy types.
I would describe the team "Slumbering Skink" as a perfect Orc-thrashing outfit...having just been beaten by them they're a good example. Either I remove some skinks early, or I lose. Simple as that.
I can't comment on Skaven as I've not come up against a healthy rat team for a while...but some decent blodging, sidestepping, DT gutters would surely be a pain in my green Orky butt.
edit: Humies can be tough too - but in my case that's because a certain "Duke Snakefield" who plays for Carlton United leads a charmed and indestructable life. |
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Macavity
Joined: Nov 23, 2004
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Nov 24, 2006 - 01:06 |
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I said speed, I meant Skaven... though Humans are fine, as well |
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When I became a man I put away childish things, including the fear of childishness and the desire to be very grown up. -C.S. Lewis |
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pac
Joined: Oct 03, 2005
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Nov 24, 2006 - 01:15 |
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Orc teams particularly need Guard and Mighty Blow and Tackle. Untill very high TR, it is hard to have lots of all of them, and they differ in their importance against different teams.
Guard is always good, of course. But it is not quite so important against teams like elves and Skaven - they weren't hoping to outblock you anyway, so a lot of the influence of Guard is lost. It's still good for forming cages though.
Some Mighty Blow is essential, for taking out specific targets. But too much at the expense of Guard will leave the Orcs too weak to overcome other bashers. Also, MB without Tackle on the same player will too often fail to bite against Dodge teams.
You can't do without Tackle against elves and Skaven, but against most other bashers it tends to be wasted.
And it should also be said that at the very highest TR levels MB and Tackle alone aren't enough to stop a developed elf team's game - you need further skills like Diving Tackle, which is quite specialised, and arguably completely wasted against other bashers.
So: it all depends what the Orcs are built for. The nature of FUMBBL being what it is, most of them are built for playing other bashers. This makes them very vulnerable to Dodge-heavy teams, because they lack Tackle. (In addition to their inherent low MA.)
Perhaps even more than this, many Orc coaches lack <i>experience</i> in playing elf teams for the same reason. This also often makes them easy prey.
None of this is inherent to an Orc team though: it is not difficult to make an Orc team which is absolute murder for elves. |
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BiggieB
Joined: Feb 19, 2005
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Nov 24, 2006 - 01:16 |
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Lizardmen are the orcs true nemesises |
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Optihut
Joined: Dec 16, 2004
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Nov 24, 2006 - 01:23 |
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I've just looked it up: My darkies have a positive winning record against orcs, whereas my orcs, humans and pro elves have a balanced win-loss ratio against them. |
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