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2016-01-10 13:01:57
9 votes, rating 2.6
9 votes, rating 2.6
Matches in the Box
I have been thinking of how the Box is working lately. Just to get it out there, I'm now a regular and happy customer in the BlackBox. I speak from my experience with my Chaos Dwarf team Moes Tavern in the Box(I'm exited if I linked correctly!)
They are 20 matches in, in their career. Doing fine I think. So I don't feel diced or anything.
I just wonder about the difference in teamvalue, as the teams get higher in the number of games. I mean, I'm beginning to like some fluff around my teams, and I'm having 2nd thoughts on bringing in a norse team. They peak around 145-170 in value. They are known as the glasscanon, and will take some beating. So If I have played more than 30 matches with the team, I can get beat up in one match, and then meet a 2500 Chaos team in the next match = Dead team.
My CD can handle some value diff, Lately playing a 1600 vs 2000 game against humans, and it was a fun match to play, but others are having some difficulties in that area. I assume Goblins would be fine with a lot of inducements to bribes and stuff(thinking of entering those aswell). Norse, not so much.
I'm wondering if it would be okay to change the limits, so the coach himself(herself) can setup the difference in value allowed with some restictions. As now the rookie teams are protected getting on their feet. Fair and good. But if a team gets a beating later on and drops a lot in value, They will suffer. One could argue this is the name of the game, live with it or play ranked(I do that too). But I like to try and improve things sometimes. So a team gets hammered, and drops from fx value 180 to 140, and has played more than fx 20 matches. Then some restictions set by the coach within some limit could work.
Let's get to the point. Let the Box be drawn in teamvalue and not games? Or games, but coaches can after the first 20 games set a limit not to meet teams more than 250k away from it's own value. Does this make sence? Or a coach could choose limits for opponent value, througout the team career, so a team would always meet some other team in some range of their own. Ofcourse with a rule saying that the value will always go both over and below the teams own value with the same amount of vaule. I hope this would bring more variety in the box. But looking at my CD team, I have had a lot of variety in my matchups. Luckyly. I just love that part of the game, and wanting more of it. In ranked I find myself not playing Nurgle/Dwarf/some builds ect. In the Box I can build the team I want, and people will have to face it. I do love the Box, but want to twerk the valuepart a bit.
Am I a looney, or has this been tried before and did not work? What do you all say?
They are 20 matches in, in their career. Doing fine I think. So I don't feel diced or anything.
I just wonder about the difference in teamvalue, as the teams get higher in the number of games. I mean, I'm beginning to like some fluff around my teams, and I'm having 2nd thoughts on bringing in a norse team. They peak around 145-170 in value. They are known as the glasscanon, and will take some beating. So If I have played more than 30 matches with the team, I can get beat up in one match, and then meet a 2500 Chaos team in the next match = Dead team.
My CD can handle some value diff, Lately playing a 1600 vs 2000 game against humans, and it was a fun match to play, but others are having some difficulties in that area. I assume Goblins would be fine with a lot of inducements to bribes and stuff(thinking of entering those aswell). Norse, not so much.
I'm wondering if it would be okay to change the limits, so the coach himself(herself) can setup the difference in value allowed with some restictions. As now the rookie teams are protected getting on their feet. Fair and good. But if a team gets a beating later on and drops a lot in value, They will suffer. One could argue this is the name of the game, live with it or play ranked(I do that too). But I like to try and improve things sometimes. So a team gets hammered, and drops from fx value 180 to 140, and has played more than fx 20 matches. Then some restictions set by the coach within some limit could work.
Let's get to the point. Let the Box be drawn in teamvalue and not games? Or games, but coaches can after the first 20 games set a limit not to meet teams more than 250k away from it's own value. Does this make sence? Or a coach could choose limits for opponent value, througout the team career, so a team would always meet some other team in some range of their own. Ofcourse with a rule saying that the value will always go both over and below the teams own value with the same amount of vaule. I hope this would bring more variety in the box. But looking at my CD team, I have had a lot of variety in my matchups. Luckyly. I just love that part of the game, and wanting more of it. In ranked I find myself not playing Nurgle/Dwarf/some builds ect. In the Box I can build the team I want, and people will have to face it. I do love the Box, but want to twerk the valuepart a bit.
Am I a looney, or has this been tried before and did not work? What do you all say?
Comments
Posted by Cloggy on 2016-01-10 13:23:42
You describe pretty much how the system USED to work. It had to be changed to what you have now because some douchebags abused the system.
Posted by ArrestedDevelopment on 2016-01-10 13:23:46
11 man pact marauders say yes, please, we don't want to play more than 150 up or down. As do the no-bull cdorfs.
At certain times, a beat up 30+ game team might face a rookie team if the tv difference is not that large - in the last week I have seen the box scheduler produce 300+ game Norse against 6 game Cpact, and Dark Elves get a 150 game old Cdorf team as their third match. So ridiculously favourable recovery matches are entirely possible, if unlikely.
At certain times, a beat up 30+ game team might face a rookie team if the tv difference is not that large - in the last week I have seen the box scheduler produce 300+ game Norse against 6 game Cpact, and Dark Elves get a 150 game old Cdorf team as their third match. So ridiculously favourable recovery matches are entirely possible, if unlikely.
Posted by SpecialOne on 2016-01-10 13:41:52
Ah yes. I can see it would open a can of worms in the form of miniMaxed teams. I just think too nicely of my fellow BloodBowlers. :)
Posted by MattDakka on 2016-01-10 13:47:14
In my opinion joke teams should be paired with a TV difference of 50-100 TV so they could have inducements.
It would make playing them in the Box a bit less frustrating.
It would make playing them in the Box a bit less frustrating.
Posted by SpecialOne on 2016-01-10 13:52:11
to avoid minimax, could the value limits be set diffently for each race, in order to make them all more playable?
Posted by bghandras on 2016-01-10 14:00:54
I am playing a lot with Norse, and it is not necesaarily a big issue. Wizard is always great, you will have skilled lino thus Dirty player, so bribe is also great, you can buy babe and apo, so you can cover a significant TV difference with useful inducements. Depending on the situation you may buy a master chef.
Of course you might be screwed some of the time, but that is fine. Shit happens. Just dont expect your team to survive eternally. You may very well win their last match, though.
Of course you might be screwed some of the time, but that is fine. Shit happens. Just dont expect your team to survive eternally. You may very well win their last match, though.
Posted by ArrestedDevelopment on 2016-01-10 14:04:44
There's ways to make any team absolutely horrible to play against if you know exactly what TV range you'll be playing in. Adding an additional level of actual control to TV-management (in fact, let's call it manipulation, in some cases) outside of the actual team, is in most cases, a terrible idea. Rookie flings etc would love inducements, 30+ game flings would prefer not to see tackle or less of it.
As an example, the very race you name as a struggle at high tv - Norse. Let's say i decided to run an Ulf, a runner, 1-2 berserkers and the rest unskilled linos (maybe a dp and kicker). This team is very competitive (actually, depending on coach and apo/rr setup/player cycling it could be very dominant) and frustrating to play against at low tv, but will be decimated by any team with sufficient development - allowing people to set a tv range would merely guarantee I never, ever face a team with sufficient development to challenge, unless such a person is also doing exactly as I am.
It's still possible to do that right now of course, but after a certain point you either retire the team, or you /do/ face that developed opponent, and all the inducements in the world aren't going to keep your team in the game.
As an example, the very race you name as a struggle at high tv - Norse. Let's say i decided to run an Ulf, a runner, 1-2 berserkers and the rest unskilled linos (maybe a dp and kicker). This team is very competitive (actually, depending on coach and apo/rr setup/player cycling it could be very dominant) and frustrating to play against at low tv, but will be decimated by any team with sufficient development - allowing people to set a tv range would merely guarantee I never, ever face a team with sufficient development to challenge, unless such a person is also doing exactly as I am.
It's still possible to do that right now of course, but after a certain point you either retire the team, or you /do/ face that developed opponent, and all the inducements in the world aren't going to keep your team in the game.
Posted by bghandras on 2016-01-10 14:14:14
I prefer 2 ulfs, 2 runners. Just saying.
Posted by ArrestedDevelopment on 2016-01-10 14:37:15
Bghandras, in the interests of not causing any unintentional offense, I would like to make clear I was typing that that reply and hypothetical team while your own reply was not visible :)
Posted by bghandras on 2016-01-10 14:44:28
Ahhhh, that makes some weird sense. :)
Thanks for sharing that info. Cheers!
Thanks for sharing that info. Cheers!
Posted by keggiemckill on 2016-01-10 18:18:06
+1 to what Cloggy stated.
Posted by Balle2000 on 2016-01-10 18:31:47
My advice is just play the TV difference as good as you can, and see what happens. Like said above you can have evenly played matches playing up to 1000 TV diff. Inducements can do a lot, and these big differences don't come around that often anyway. It's also possible to survive fine vs. big cpomb teams, but you need to adopt a much more defensive stance. And don't listen to anyone who says you can't keep your teams forever, keep building fluff and history if that's what you like. There are many teams who have 100, 300, 500 and 1000 games. And they have obviously gone through periods of rebuilding. Making the teams even richer in history, and providing a lot of fun for their coaches.
Posted by mrt1212 on 2016-01-10 22:59:12
Balle2000 sums up my thoughts - also it's a relative rarity to play with a huge TV difference and one should savor those opportunities to go shopping and play wild.
Posted by tussock on 2016-01-11 00:31:56
MORG!
Or, more practically, if your old Norse are sitting with a few big MNG at 1500 TV, just make sure you ready something bigger at the same time to catch the matches against giants. I've got some big Vamps look after all my stunties like that, and they're much more fun to play against the really big Nurgs anyway.
Or, more practically, if your old Norse are sitting with a few big MNG at 1500 TV, just make sure you ready something bigger at the same time to catch the matches against giants. I've got some big Vamps look after all my stunties like that, and they're much more fun to play against the really big Nurgs anyway.
Posted by garyt1 on 2016-01-11 04:51:11
TV matching is still the biggest factor in getting games as far as I know. Even if the range is opened up at 30 games.