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2013-07-12 13:05:46
13 votes, rating 4.9
13 votes, rating 4.9
Khemries blog: Thro-Ra skills
This time I want to share my thought about skilling up T-Ras. If you dont agree with me. or have some other ideas, please comment!
Block
Best normal skill, always take it on first normal skill roll.
But after that...
Tackle
I found this skill very usefull both in defence and offence. On defence, T-Ra is often somewhere in the back, not marked. Ready to blitz if opponent ball carrier becomes exposed. Also, T-Ra with tackle is great when you need to mark 3ag dodgers in backfield (skinks, human catchers, even ghouls).
On offence, when you get marked by blodge sidestepper, tackle increase chance to successfully "blitz and run away".
Fend
I found this skill super usefull for Tho-Ra's. Basically, Tho-Ra's gets blitzed:
1) when they are in loose cage/behind screen
2) when they run away, but opponent still can reach them with some dodges/gfi.
In 1) scenario, blitzer pretty much always is in tackle zone. So, after fend, if he wants to mark Tho-Ra, he needs to dodge (often into 1 or more tackle zones). They rarely do so, Tho-Ra stays not marked.
In 2) scenario, prety much the same. Opponent cannot folow you, very often he needs gfi. Or if blitz was with 2nd gfi, T-Ra stays not marked.
Kick-off return
Another surprisingly effective skill. Makes scoring in 3/4/5 turns so much easier. And if you roll 5+ to catch a landing ball, you know Nuffle loves you.
I think kick-off return is best 2nd skill (unless B-Ra's still without tackle).
Leader
I did not tested leader as early skill (took it as 5th normal skill for one of TR-a's).
Reasons:
1) Its team skill. I feel, that if I take it early, and later roll a lot of stats/doubles, I will waste player potential.
2) I will feel the preasure to field T-Ra on defence, and risk him getting hurt.
Kick
I think this skill is better on skelly. Like leader, it's waste of player potential.
Strip Ball
I took this skill on +Ag T-Ra and regreted it ever since. It was usefull exactly once.
The thing is, you want to knock down opponent ball carrier. If you dont, ball stays in tackle zone. Khemries have enough problems to pick up ball in open field.
Shadowing
Saw this skill on few T-Ra... Never saw good use of it.
Doubles
No doubles on T-Ra's so far... So, the following section is only my philosophy :)
Dodge
Best double skill. Free reroll on desparate dodges, reduces knockdown chance on stupid 1D by 50%.
Side step
Imho very good skill, especially combined with fend.
Jump up
If opponent knocked you down, its +3 MA next turn. Sounds good, needs some testing.
Special case: Break tackle
If I ever get +STR T-Ra, BT is first double (even before dodge). 2+ dodge is almost cheating for Khemries.
Stats
+MA is gold. Makes life so much easier. If must choose between dodge and MA -> dodge. If must choose between MA and Side Step - MA.
+AG is... I dont know... Adamantine?
+STR is gold.
+AV... I would consider it after 2x +MA on normal roll. The thing is, its very hard to recover after knockdown + stun. +AV may be very usefull here.
1 T-Ra or... 2
2nd T-Ra is like expensive skellie without thick skull. Is he worth it?
Is worth it to "recycle" T-Ra's and fish for stats/doubles?
Block
Best normal skill, always take it on first normal skill roll.
But after that...
Tackle
I found this skill very usefull both in defence and offence. On defence, T-Ra is often somewhere in the back, not marked. Ready to blitz if opponent ball carrier becomes exposed. Also, T-Ra with tackle is great when you need to mark 3ag dodgers in backfield (skinks, human catchers, even ghouls).
On offence, when you get marked by blodge sidestepper, tackle increase chance to successfully "blitz and run away".
Fend
I found this skill super usefull for Tho-Ra's. Basically, Tho-Ra's gets blitzed:
1) when they are in loose cage/behind screen
2) when they run away, but opponent still can reach them with some dodges/gfi.
In 1) scenario, blitzer pretty much always is in tackle zone. So, after fend, if he wants to mark Tho-Ra, he needs to dodge (often into 1 or more tackle zones). They rarely do so, Tho-Ra stays not marked.
In 2) scenario, prety much the same. Opponent cannot folow you, very often he needs gfi. Or if blitz was with 2nd gfi, T-Ra stays not marked.
Kick-off return
Another surprisingly effective skill. Makes scoring in 3/4/5 turns so much easier. And if you roll 5+ to catch a landing ball, you know Nuffle loves you.
I think kick-off return is best 2nd skill (unless B-Ra's still without tackle).
Leader
I did not tested leader as early skill (took it as 5th normal skill for one of TR-a's).
Reasons:
1) Its team skill. I feel, that if I take it early, and later roll a lot of stats/doubles, I will waste player potential.
2) I will feel the preasure to field T-Ra on defence, and risk him getting hurt.
Kick
I think this skill is better on skelly. Like leader, it's waste of player potential.
Strip Ball
I took this skill on +Ag T-Ra and regreted it ever since. It was usefull exactly once.
The thing is, you want to knock down opponent ball carrier. If you dont, ball stays in tackle zone. Khemries have enough problems to pick up ball in open field.
Shadowing
Saw this skill on few T-Ra... Never saw good use of it.
Doubles
No doubles on T-Ra's so far... So, the following section is only my philosophy :)
Dodge
Best double skill. Free reroll on desparate dodges, reduces knockdown chance on stupid 1D by 50%.
Side step
Imho very good skill, especially combined with fend.
Jump up
If opponent knocked you down, its +3 MA next turn. Sounds good, needs some testing.
Special case: Break tackle
If I ever get +STR T-Ra, BT is first double (even before dodge). 2+ dodge is almost cheating for Khemries.
Stats
+MA is gold. Makes life so much easier. If must choose between dodge and MA -> dodge. If must choose between MA and Side Step - MA.
+AG is... I dont know... Adamantine?
+STR is gold.
+AV... I would consider it after 2x +MA on normal roll. The thing is, its very hard to recover after knockdown + stun. +AV may be very usefull here.
1 T-Ra or... 2
2nd T-Ra is like expensive skellie without thick skull. Is he worth it?
Is worth it to "recycle" T-Ra's and fish for stats/doubles?
Comments
Posted by soranos on 2013-07-12 13:40:08
Nice! I am currently trying to get into Khemri and have experienced quite some problems so far. So your blog is a good source.
I had the luck to get an AG+ on my T-Ra and 3 doubles on my TGs.
At which TV would you suggest having 13 and (later maybe 14) players on the team in the box, bigGuy?
I had the luck to get an AG+ on my T-Ra and 3 doubles on my TGs.
At which TV would you suggest having 13 and (later maybe 14) players on the team in the box, bigGuy?
Posted by huff on 2013-07-12 13:50:22
I'll give my thoughts but they are based solely on BB experience, having not givin Khemries a go (due to Decay and other roster 'flaws').
2nd T-Ra? Hells yes. Overall I'm not a big fan of recycling for stats (AG here) but wouldn't fault anyone, especially when there is another T-Ra that is developed. And having 2 T-Ras means that you can definitely take Leader on one. Huge savings on TV for Khemries with their 70k rr's. Block, tackle, fend, KOR are prolly your best normals and the leader on one. Not sure I like the idea of SS, you would prolly be giving up tackle or KOR at that point.
2nd T-Ra? Hells yes. Overall I'm not a big fan of recycling for stats (AG here) but wouldn't fault anyone, especially when there is another T-Ra that is developed. And having 2 T-Ras means that you can definitely take Leader on one. Huge savings on TV for Khemries with their 70k rr's. Block, tackle, fend, KOR are prolly your best normals and the leader on one. Not sure I like the idea of SS, you would prolly be giving up tackle or KOR at that point.
Posted by bigGuy on 2013-07-12 13:52:27
Lucky bastard :)
Imho 13 players is must from 1200-1300 TV. Khemries needs some number advantage.
My 1800+ TV team still good with 13 players, but I think I foul not enough. Maybe should take one extra skellie and foul more.
Imho 13 players is must from 1200-1300 TV. Khemries needs some number advantage.
My 1800+ TV team still good with 13 players, but I think I foul not enough. Maybe should take one extra skellie and foul more.
Posted by uzkulak on 2013-07-12 14:08:29
Definitely 2 T-Ras - and definitely 1 or both on the field for defence. They are yovr fastest players and the only ones that really shovld even be looking at the ball (+ag players aside). I cant see them ever living to 4 skills, so Block, Tackle, Leader/KOR are all we need to know. KOR is not needed most of the time, bvt if yov do need to score fast - or are facing a kick->blitz team then it is really vsefvl.
Definitely dodge on dovbles.
Definitely dodge on dovbles.
Posted by Wreckage on 2013-07-12 14:08:36
HMP, all I need.
Posted by Rabe on 2013-07-12 14:19:00
Just out of curiosity: What about a wrestling Thro-Ra? Any thoughts/experiences?
I'd probably build one (first Wrestle then Tackle). His obvious use is to threaten the ball carrier, but a guy with Wrestle can be very useful on offense as well, since you sometimes desperately need a player to get out of the way...
I'd probably build one (first Wrestle then Tackle). His obvious use is to threaten the ball carrier, but a guy with Wrestle can be very useful on offense as well, since you sometimes desperately need a player to get out of the way...
Posted by huff on 2013-07-12 14:25:22
When I say/read 'Khemries' it's in G-Dubs voice. It's really quite funny.
HMP may be the one.
HMP may be the one.
Posted by B_SIDE on 2013-07-12 15:39:02
What up, shun?
Posted by Hitonagashi on 2013-07-12 15:52:09
I wouldn't take a second thro-ra personally. One is already huge weak point in your line, with no thick skull, and your ball handling ability.
People seem to have a large blind-spot towards Thick Skull. If the entire Khemri team had AV 8 (and no t-skull), and the Thro-Ras had AV 7, I suspect far less people would be suggesting taking a second. With regard to the important stat for a thro-ra (KO/Cassed), Thick Skull and +AV are almost identical.
In ranked, if you are cherrypicking elves who won't hit back, mebbe that extra +MA is useful for a mobile tackler. In Box, I wouldn't go near an expensive liability.
People seem to have a large blind-spot towards Thick Skull. If the entire Khemri team had AV 8 (and no t-skull), and the Thro-Ras had AV 7, I suspect far less people would be suggesting taking a second. With regard to the important stat for a thro-ra (KO/Cassed), Thick Skull and +AV are almost identical.
In ranked, if you are cherrypicking elves who won't hit back, mebbe that extra +MA is useful for a mobile tackler. In Box, I wouldn't go near an expensive liability.
Posted by bigGuy on 2013-07-12 16:09:35
Uzkulak» what to field on def is a question I still dont have an ansewer. 3 skellies on LOS +4 TG +2 BR +TR. Then we have 1 slot left. My choice is dp skely. If I field 2nd TR, Im left without dp, or dp is on LOS. Either way, he wont be able to foul for few turns, and wont keep opponent PO honest. Another option is TG on LOS, but loosing TG on t1 can easy costt game.
Posted by Overhamsteren on 2013-07-12 16:32:46
I am a 1 thro-ra guy, my thro-ras so far:
Thro-ra, Block, Tackle, Leader, Kick-Off Return
Thro-ra, Block, +AG, Dodge, Tackle
All skills have been very good, I like leader for the huge savings and field the thro-ra in every drive and protect him a lot in any case.
Reason for not taking a 2nd is definitely the high cost and lack of thick skull but losing the single is of course very painful so I am not a 100% against 2 thro-ras.
Block, tackle, leader, fend, kick of return is the top picks in my mind. Not sure what a 6th normal should be but it's so unlikely anyway.
2nd double I guess sidestep and then I would probably skip doubles unless I had ST4 for the break tackle.
And yeah +MA over +AV, and say a prayer he gets hit. :D
Thro-ra, Block, Tackle, Leader, Kick-Off Return
Thro-ra, Block, +AG, Dodge, Tackle
All skills have been very good, I like leader for the huge savings and field the thro-ra in every drive and protect him a lot in any case.
Reason for not taking a 2nd is definitely the high cost and lack of thick skull but losing the single is of course very painful so I am not a 100% against 2 thro-ras.
Block, tackle, leader, fend, kick of return is the top picks in my mind. Not sure what a 6th normal should be but it's so unlikely anyway.
2nd double I guess sidestep and then I would probably skip doubles unless I had ST4 for the break tackle.
And yeah +MA over +AV, and say a prayer he gets hit. :D
Posted by Beerox on 2013-07-12 17:32:03
This is a solid build I like to use whenever possible :)
http://fumbbl.com/FUMBBL.php?page=player&player_id=8078058
Block first
Then hopefully a double so he can get dodge. He'd be an offensive specialist. I try to keep Thro-Ras off defense. AV7, no thick skull, and you just may be without a ball carrier for your next drive.
But if I don't get a double by skill #2, I give him Leader and make him play defense as well. Hire another and hope for doubles. Hopefully the first one dies at the same time this guy skills up. If the first one skills again. Idk... kick? Hopefully he doubles or dies.
+AG is golden obviously
dodge is needed
Recycling, yes.
Tackle can be useful to shed blodge/ss annoyances. A late skill pick though.
I tend not to take defensive skills on Thro-Ras. Sidestep, fend, etc. If they're getting hit, EVER, then I've done something wrong.
http://fumbbl.com/FUMBBL.php?page=player&player_id=8078058
Block first
Then hopefully a double so he can get dodge. He'd be an offensive specialist. I try to keep Thro-Ras off defense. AV7, no thick skull, and you just may be without a ball carrier for your next drive.
But if I don't get a double by skill #2, I give him Leader and make him play defense as well. Hire another and hope for doubles. Hopefully the first one dies at the same time this guy skills up. If the first one skills again. Idk... kick? Hopefully he doubles or dies.
+AG is golden obviously
dodge is needed
Recycling, yes.
Tackle can be useful to shed blodge/ss annoyances. A late skill pick though.
I tend not to take defensive skills on Thro-Ras. Sidestep, fend, etc. If they're getting hit, EVER, then I've done something wrong.
Posted by keggiemckill on 2013-07-12 17:33:04
I build 2 types of Throw-Raaaahhs. 1 defensive and 1 Offensive. I take block, on both first with normal skills. Then Leader on my defensive one of the pair. As the first RR used in a drive is the Leader, I never think it is a waste. I tend to not use my Offensive Thro-ra on Defense, as I want an extra fouling skeleton. Leader would be a a waste on the offensive player then.
Offensively, I take KO return second. This is because like most khemri I spend more time up field than in the back field. I want to move that ball up into a cage faster. Provided I pick it up. 3rd skill, I base on how my team is developed. I like Safe Throw as most pass attempts will be fumbles. Sometimes fend.
For doubles, I take dodge on both players. For a second doubles, I take catch on my Defensive Thro-ra, as I want an extra RR for the catch/ hand of receive. There are to many times that I need to score in 2 turns and am RR depleted.
One thing I should say is that I rarely use oir build my Thro-ras towards the defensive realms. I try to keep them away from hits and use them to support my blitz-ras in hits. Because I look for Break Tackle on my Mummies, I only use the blitz-ras to blitz 50% of the time.
I may be unorthodox with this style. Ive won some TT leagues with my Khemri. I tend to not use them much here, though I have recently used them quite a bit on Fumbbl.
Offensively, I take KO return second. This is because like most khemri I spend more time up field than in the back field. I want to move that ball up into a cage faster. Provided I pick it up. 3rd skill, I base on how my team is developed. I like Safe Throw as most pass attempts will be fumbles. Sometimes fend.
For doubles, I take dodge on both players. For a second doubles, I take catch on my Defensive Thro-ra, as I want an extra RR for the catch/ hand of receive. There are to many times that I need to score in 2 turns and am RR depleted.
One thing I should say is that I rarely use oir build my Thro-ras towards the defensive realms. I try to keep them away from hits and use them to support my blitz-ras in hits. Because I look for Break Tackle on my Mummies, I only use the blitz-ras to blitz 50% of the time.
I may be unorthodox with this style. Ive won some TT leagues with my Khemri. I tend to not use them much here, though I have recently used them quite a bit on Fumbbl.
Posted by fidius on 2013-07-12 18:54:00
My experience with Khemri is fairly limited so far, but the Leader-caddy TR is debateable imo. They are +30k over a rookie Skel, ie Skel with Leader costs 20k less than a dedicated TR with Leader -- plus with Thick Skull he stays in the game exactly as well as a Zombie. You give up 1 MA, fine, but more importantly Sure Hands, which can be critical.
Therefore the answer is probably to roster 2 TRs early, until you develop an alternative ball handler like a +AG BR or a Sure Hands Skel (after Block), then sacrifice a doubles on Leader if you really need the TV. Obviously this is a questionable point, whether to pass up Dodge or Guard in favour of Leader. On AV7 I think Guard is not as valuable, nor is Dodge on AG2.
Therefore the answer is probably to roster 2 TRs early, until you develop an alternative ball handler like a +AG BR or a Sure Hands Skel (after Block), then sacrifice a doubles on Leader if you really need the TV. Obviously this is a questionable point, whether to pass up Dodge or Guard in favour of Leader. On AV7 I think Guard is not as valuable, nor is Dodge on AG2.
Posted by Rabe on 2013-07-13 11:22:42
So, really no Wrestle thro-ra, right?
Hmm. Given I went very well with one of my dwarven runners built as wrackler, I wonder if it's just something new no khemri players has tried yet...
Hmm. Given I went very well with one of my dwarven runners built as wrackler, I wonder if it's just something new no khemri players has tried yet...
Posted by Roland on 2013-10-29 12:36:55
How anout kick on a defensive TR?