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2011-10-30 16:14:15
45 votes, rating 4.9
45 votes, rating 4.9
Finishing fumbbl soon
Well, I’m writing my first and actually last blog in fumbbl. As much fun as I had – as much I’m annoyed. I get that many users will find my reasons for quitting fumbbl somewhat absurd and over the line. But I can’t help it, I do not wish to participate in a community were Admins defend the insulting of the mentally handicapped. I work as a doctor with a lot of people with down syndrome and their families and know they are used to be mocked and made fun of. It hurts those people a great deal – and no shadow46x2, it is not comparable to fart-jokes –, it goes so far that people actually kill themselves because they can’t stand to leave their homes no more. There are always trolls and people who think it's open minded to insult the mentally ill and all that jazz and one has to deal with that. But when an admin defends that with far-fetched arguments and not even his co-admins say: Hey, this goes too far, mate, then this means finito for me.
Cheers to all the fun people I played with and goodbye
p.s. I have to finish one tournament first ;).
Cheers to all the fun people I played with and goodbye
p.s. I have to finish one tournament first ;).
Comments
Posted by PurpleChest on 2011-10-30 16:32:19
Much as i sympathise with your feelings and concerns, this is an old arguement. Raised first very devisively (and stigmatised with that ever since) and frankly i thought we had all moved on.
There are cultural differences at play here clearly, as seemingly nearly all North American coaches seem to think this sort of humour acceptable, yet very few Europeans.
Obviously you should draw your own moral line and if you feel that strongly about it I can only hope you give others cause for pause with your actions. But i doubt it. The onyl end result will be that you play no FUMBBL. The people who have caused you offense will, no doubt, carry on regardless.
How much better for you to stay and try to emprove the enviroment here by challenging it and not tollerating abusive language and references. Certainly you would not be alone.
There are cultural differences at play here clearly, as seemingly nearly all North American coaches seem to think this sort of humour acceptable, yet very few Europeans.
Obviously you should draw your own moral line and if you feel that strongly about it I can only hope you give others cause for pause with your actions. But i doubt it. The onyl end result will be that you play no FUMBBL. The people who have caused you offense will, no doubt, carry on regardless.
How much better for you to stay and try to emprove the enviroment here by challenging it and not tollerating abusive language and references. Certainly you would not be alone.
Posted by Calcium on 2011-10-30 16:40:03
Purple is spot on.
A great deal of us find the issue distastefull, but asking others to accept our moral stance is no better than them expecting us to accept theirs. And who is more wrong? Having come across this issue in mainstream media as well as here, it made me think 'Am I too easy to offend?' Frankly I don't know, although I try to examine the whole issue before making a final descision.
If you enjoy FUMBBL then play with coaches who share your veiwpoint. League is a great arena for that. Accept in R & B you will bump into coaches you disagree with/dislike. Above all, don't feed the trolls, it only makes them hungrier for more moral outrage from the other side of the fence.
A great deal of us find the issue distastefull, but asking others to accept our moral stance is no better than them expecting us to accept theirs. And who is more wrong? Having come across this issue in mainstream media as well as here, it made me think 'Am I too easy to offend?' Frankly I don't know, although I try to examine the whole issue before making a final descision.
If you enjoy FUMBBL then play with coaches who share your veiwpoint. League is a great arena for that. Accept in R & B you will bump into coaches you disagree with/dislike. Above all, don't feed the trolls, it only makes them hungrier for more moral outrage from the other side of the fence.
Posted by Keith-Lemon on 2011-10-30 16:56:45
Nothing will be done its what i call the FUMBBL click if your in it you do what ever you want.
Posted by Ehlers on 2011-10-30 17:30:44
Have you sent in a support ticket?
If you are not happy with how it get resolved, then send one to Christer.
One admin might be crossing a line that should not be crossed. Some admins might turn a blind eye to it, but that does not mean that the rest of admins and community agree with it.
It is seen before that an admin crossed a line that should not be crossed and action was taken.
I would be surprised if Christer did not listen to you at least and gave you a reasonable answer. If Christer answers is not to your liking then leave. But as the other said, stay in the community and help it improve instead.
If you are not happy with how it get resolved, then send one to Christer.
One admin might be crossing a line that should not be crossed. Some admins might turn a blind eye to it, but that does not mean that the rest of admins and community agree with it.
It is seen before that an admin crossed a line that should not be crossed and action was taken.
I would be surprised if Christer did not listen to you at least and gave you a reasonable answer. If Christer answers is not to your liking then leave. But as the other said, stay in the community and help it improve instead.
Posted by deCotte on 2011-10-30 17:52:21
You guys clearly have a point. I’m new to the site; I did read these things just by now. I don’t want to rekindle the argument; I just say why I don’t want to stay here.
Don’t feed the trolls is a good advice in the internet, but if the troll is an admin – then that fact says a lot. If the administration feels that such “humor” is okay, fine, it’s their right to do so – and mine to leave. :)
Don’t feed the trolls is a good advice in the internet, but if the troll is an admin – then that fact says a lot. If the administration feels that such “humor” is okay, fine, it’s their right to do so – and mine to leave. :)
Posted by spiro on 2011-10-30 18:08:47
ouh, i thought that i am troll here, shadow told me that many times. However i know i am not a troll so ... LOL
Deduction 1 is, that everybody who has negative thouhts about fumbbl or about a client is a troll.
Deduction 2 is, that a troll it's unpreciselly creature, depending who is talking about that.
Deduction 3 is, if you want to be part of mutual social admiration, try to speak as others here, even if it's immoral for you, just try to be flatterer for every cost.
Deduction 4 is, the guys whose are false can be part of this community very easy.
deduction 5 is, i want to be lone troll here instead to be part of this .... i just playing here from time to time pffft
Deduction 1 is, that everybody who has negative thouhts about fumbbl or about a client is a troll.
Deduction 2 is, that a troll it's unpreciselly creature, depending who is talking about that.
Deduction 3 is, if you want to be part of mutual social admiration, try to speak as others here, even if it's immoral for you, just try to be flatterer for every cost.
Deduction 4 is, the guys whose are false can be part of this community very easy.
deduction 5 is, i want to be lone troll here instead to be part of this .... i just playing here from time to time pffft
Posted by spiro on 2011-10-30 18:14:50
ps. deCotte, you want to live from here because morality here is doubtfull if i good understand, but if morality of the world is doubtfull too then ...
you can't change all the people.
you can't change all the people.
Posted by pythrr on 2011-10-30 18:44:59
jesus h. christ, not this again.
I am sorry you are offended by the speech of some people on this site, but the admin do not defend the "insulting of the mentally handicapped". They defend free speech. The definition of free speech differs from country to country, and any internet community thus has the problem of which country's standards to run by. No matter what balance of free speech vs. protection from insulting language they choose, somewhat will be upset.
Why can people not appreciate the complexity of free speech in an international environment. I hope that you are also boycotting all chinese products, since the disabled have no rights in china, and avoiding contact with products and people from all the other many and varied countries where disabled people are discriminated against. Otherwise, sir, you are a hypocrite.
My 2 cents.
I am sorry you are offended by the speech of some people on this site, but the admin do not defend the "insulting of the mentally handicapped". They defend free speech. The definition of free speech differs from country to country, and any internet community thus has the problem of which country's standards to run by. No matter what balance of free speech vs. protection from insulting language they choose, somewhat will be upset.
Why can people not appreciate the complexity of free speech in an international environment. I hope that you are also boycotting all chinese products, since the disabled have no rights in china, and avoiding contact with products and people from all the other many and varied countries where disabled people are discriminated against. Otherwise, sir, you are a hypocrite.
My 2 cents.
Posted by Garion on 2011-10-30 20:25:12
I don't know what you are talking about specifically. I can take a guess though, I dont like this sort of thing either really. But I think the important thing to think about is the context of what is being said more than anything else. For instance... I call my friends Cu*** sometimes, but I do not mean it offensively. If anything it is a term of endearment really.
If the thing that was said was something like "Mong" and they are using that word to insult people with disabilities then yes I think they should be banned for a lengthy period of time just as someone would that was being openly racist. However if the word Mong is being used between two friends like Lizvis calling pythrr a mong for saying something really dumb (or something along those lines) then it is clear that the intent is not aimed at insulting the mentally handicapped (as you put it) and is infact just someone having a laugh. I find it distasteful too and would prefer it if that didn't happen either. But I think the tone of what is being said is more important than actually words used when talking about banning people.
If they are using words like mong in a derogatary way then yeah this should definately be sent higher up the chain because there is no place for that.
If the thing that was said was something like "Mong" and they are using that word to insult people with disabilities then yes I think they should be banned for a lengthy period of time just as someone would that was being openly racist. However if the word Mong is being used between two friends like Lizvis calling pythrr a mong for saying something really dumb (or something along those lines) then it is clear that the intent is not aimed at insulting the mentally handicapped (as you put it) and is infact just someone having a laugh. I find it distasteful too and would prefer it if that didn't happen either. But I think the tone of what is being said is more important than actually words used when talking about banning people.
If they are using words like mong in a derogatary way then yeah this should definately be sent higher up the chain because there is no place for that.
Posted by pythrr on 2011-10-30 21:00:45
Did u just call Lizvis and me friends?!
I am so suing yr ass....
I am so suing yr ass....
Posted by koadah on 2011-10-30 21:13:38
PurpleChest has it right. Just don't play vs Americans and look forward to the next high school massacre. ;)
Posted by Juff on 2011-10-30 21:55:05
Less QQ more pewpew.
I hope you enjoy the environment you're looking for, which will most likely consist of totalitarian overlords meting out 'justice' as per their own personal tastes.
Be careful the door doesn't hit you on the way out - it sounds like you're already pretty butthurt as it stands.
For what it's worth, without being in any clique, I support the admins in what is yet another community-created "damned if you do, damned if you don't" scenario.
I hope you enjoy the environment you're looking for, which will most likely consist of totalitarian overlords meting out 'justice' as per their own personal tastes.
Be careful the door doesn't hit you on the way out - it sounds like you're already pretty butthurt as it stands.
For what it's worth, without being in any clique, I support the admins in what is yet another community-created "damned if you do, damned if you don't" scenario.
Posted by happygrue on 2011-10-30 23:47:13
It's a sensitive issue and, IMHO, deCotte takes the high road and makes some good points. And then what follows a disappointing response from the community that largely proves his point.
To sum up, the basic reaction is somewhere between "It's not a problem!" to "It's the American's fault!" Personally, I take the view that it is very hard to monitor and police internet communities and that there will always be some issues with "bad apples" causing trouble but it really saddens me to see people lay into deCotte in such an unproductive way.
To sum up, the basic reaction is somewhere between "It's not a problem!" to "It's the American's fault!" Personally, I take the view that it is very hard to monitor and police internet communities and that there will always be some issues with "bad apples" causing trouble but it really saddens me to see people lay into deCotte in such an unproductive way.
Posted by lizvis on 2011-10-31 05:17:57
to further pythrr's point, its time for all you hypocrites to turn over your keyboards and notice the 'made in china' sticker. maybe some of you aren't aware that you're masquerading a personal attack as a righteous cause, perhaps your keyboard's sticker combined with pythrr's point will help you realize that.
Posted by Jeffro on 2011-10-31 06:39:54
To quote from good ol' ex-NFL coach, Denny Green: “The great thing about America is that everyone is entitled to an opinion. The other great thing about America is you don’t have to listen to them... that's the great part.”
/ignore lizvis ftw.
:D
/ignore lizvis ftw.
:D
Posted by lizvis on 2011-10-31 07:58:57
u keep avoiding critical thought jeffro and i'm sure you'll be happy the rest of your life. after all, to do otherwise might be too damaging for you.
Posted by Lill-Leif on 2011-10-31 08:26:44
Did the world just turn upside down? It's we that are supposed to make the akward jokes and the americans that should stand and wave with their bibles and their guns!
Posted by koadah on 2011-10-31 10:01:51
@deCotte
If you're going over to Cyanide be sure to join the FOL.
Public leagues should only be a last resort. ;)
http://forum.bloodbowl-game.com/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=61
Stunty Leeg seems pretty quiet right now but still worth dropping in to say hi.
www.stuntyleeg.com
If you're going over to Cyanide be sure to join the FOL.
Public leagues should only be a last resort. ;)
http://forum.bloodbowl-game.com/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=61
Stunty Leeg seems pretty quiet right now but still worth dropping in to say hi.
www.stuntyleeg.com
Posted by Calcium on 2011-10-31 10:20:45
Dammit, my keyboard is made in China as well!!!
I'm clearly supporting discrimination against the handicapped and vunerable! Time to find a keyboard made in the USA :)
I'm clearly supporting discrimination against the handicapped and vunerable! Time to find a keyboard made in the USA :)
Posted by pythrr on 2011-10-31 10:34:18
Calcium,
As long as it is not made in a US factory which employs the disabled at minimum wage....
As long as it is not made in a US factory which employs the disabled at minimum wage....
Posted by spiro on 2011-10-31 10:53:28
the biggest problem in Poland for now is, helloween from USA, the pumpkins, witches, crazy kids, pffft, walking deads pffft, silly tradition. What the hell it has connection with knowledge about the death pffft. Get some candys or doing some poo poo at the garden or other stupid joke.
Posted by pythrr on 2011-10-31 11:53:54
poo poo in the garden FTW!
Posted by deCotte on 2011-10-31 12:02:02
I'm glad this all at least amuses you.
Posted by pythrr on 2011-10-31 12:51:18
who? spiro? no, he's deadly serious.
Posted by spiro on 2011-10-31 14:36:46
mardi gras beads are maded at the China and all usa using that pffft is this not hyphocrisy ?
Posted by pythrr on 2011-10-31 15:42:37
yes
that was my point Spiro.
that was my point Spiro.
Posted by lizvis on 2011-10-31 16:12:45
@ calcium
we don't manufacture keyboards, or much of anything besides debt anymore.
we don't manufacture keyboards, or much of anything besides debt anymore.
Posted by Calcium on 2011-10-31 17:04:24
Spiro is quite possibly the funniest person in FUMBBL.
You never fail to make me spray coffee all over my keyboard when reading your comments....hence why am looking for another 'socially and economically friendly keyboard'
I hear that there's a nice little company in the USA called Microsoft that's run by a guy called Bill that makes keyboards. He's gotta be a good egg if he's named after BillBrasky. I might give them a try.
You never fail to make me spray coffee all over my keyboard when reading your comments....hence why am looking for another 'socially and economically friendly keyboard'
I hear that there's a nice little company in the USA called Microsoft that's run by a guy called Bill that makes keyboards. He's gotta be a good egg if he's named after BillBrasky. I might give them a try.
Posted by pythrr on 2011-10-31 17:40:08
Oh, I'm pretty sure bill has some little chinese fellas somewhere west of Beijing knock those up for him, them put MicroSoft sticker on em.
Posted by pompom on 2011-10-31 18:31:25
deCotte, i have no idea what was said and in some ways think that the actual words are probably irrelevant.
The fact you are a doctor means you are sensative to this issue - and rightly so. In the same way that sombody working daily with sexism or rasism quite rightly have an axe to grind about their views.
The confusing thing is that you see yourself as part of this community enough to commit some bizarre form of self-rightous-cyber-matrydom yet not to stick around and be part fixing the community you see as broken.
Being guided by your own moral compass is noble, but fleeing because sombody with more power than you doesn't agree is cowardess.
As i said, you are rightly passionate about an issue in this community. If you leave the community then as a whole we will become a little more prejustice.
If you want to change people's views - godly title of fumbbl admin - or not - then you should seek the bigots, not hide from them.
Besides i haven't played you yet and you have never intercepted a pass... oh the shame...
The fact you are a doctor means you are sensative to this issue - and rightly so. In the same way that sombody working daily with sexism or rasism quite rightly have an axe to grind about their views.
The confusing thing is that you see yourself as part of this community enough to commit some bizarre form of self-rightous-cyber-matrydom yet not to stick around and be part fixing the community you see as broken.
Being guided by your own moral compass is noble, but fleeing because sombody with more power than you doesn't agree is cowardess.
As i said, you are rightly passionate about an issue in this community. If you leave the community then as a whole we will become a little more prejustice.
If you want to change people's views - godly title of fumbbl admin - or not - then you should seek the bigots, not hide from them.
Besides i haven't played you yet and you have never intercepted a pass... oh the shame...
Posted by harvestmouse on 2011-10-31 19:27:00
You might be a bit too close to a 160 coach for Madam deCotte pompom, and I'm sure she has her reasons to be leaving.
I think computer city is in southern china, and is a complex little place, full of delivery trucks travelling 200 metres and conveyor belts waiting for parts that haven't been invented yet!
I think computer city is in southern china, and is a complex little place, full of delivery trucks travelling 200 metres and conveyor belts waiting for parts that haven't been invented yet!
Posted by Rabe on 2011-11-01 01:40:14
@pompom:
I totally agree that (as PC stated in the first answer to this blog entry) sticking around and trying to change things is far better than "running away".
However, actively trying to change a huge community might be something not everyone is up to in his (probably precious) free time. Even if one feels the desire to make a difference, there are places that need it more than FUMBBL for sure.
Just to give you an idea why someone might quit and try to at least rise some awareness by doing so.
I totally agree that (as PC stated in the first answer to this blog entry) sticking around and trying to change things is far better than "running away".
However, actively trying to change a huge community might be something not everyone is up to in his (probably precious) free time. Even if one feels the desire to make a difference, there are places that need it more than FUMBBL for sure.
Just to give you an idea why someone might quit and try to at least rise some awareness by doing so.
Posted by koadah on 2011-11-01 08:00:45
This has already been covered several times before. They're not going change.
You can use the site just fine while avoiding the main chat channels and sticking to league or language channels.
There might be some who choose to spend their donation money on something else this period though.
You can use the site just fine while avoiding the main chat channels and sticking to league or language channels.
There might be some who choose to spend their donation money on something else this period though.
Posted by pythrr on 2011-11-01 09:11:04
ah yes, the freeloaders....
Posted by koadah on 2011-11-01 12:46:35
You're not showing gold right now either.