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Garion



Joined: Aug 19, 2009

Post   Posted: Jun 24, 2019 - 19:50 Reply with quote Back to top

Arktoris wrote:
It been a long time since I've seen them on gamefinder Garion. Can't say the same for the other three teams.

Furthermore, there are no reg. bloodbowl teams with all 2ag and no sure hands for a reason.

the sad thing here is, you actually had it right the first time...then broke em on a whim.

So now they get picked over for their Khorne and Slaneesh versions. and to a lesser extent, Tzeentch.


people will always use more powerful teams more, this is always the case in blood bowl. They do play games though.

As for them having Ag3, this was never meant to be the case. When I put Secret League live I made some mistakes in implementation, I remember I made a big guy St2 and Ag5 for example on day 1. Which was bound to happen on account of putting 70+ rosters live, and was quickly fixed.

The plague bearers were always meant to be ag2. it wasn't changed on a whim. this is how they were meant to be, so were corrected once highlighted. If they were Ag3 they would have to be 140k to be priced correctly. Which would cause other problems for the team, specifically when creating your starting roster. The roster stylistically is meant to lack finesse, be slow and grind out 1-0 wins, and made to feel tarpit like in style.

As for no team having Ag2 and no sure hands, in the main teams, we you could say that about a lot of the stuff in secret league. The different challenges it offers is entirely the point. The team may not be to your taste and that's Ok, but to me it offers a new, different playstyle to the game, and a number of unique challenges for the people playing with them and against them.

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Arktoris



Joined: Feb 16, 2004

Post   Posted: Jun 24, 2019 - 20:17 Reply with quote Back to top

from personal account, I can attest Khorne and Slaneesh are more popular because they fill a niche. khorne is great for the shear novelty of smashing things. driving the bloodthirster is like that T2 scene of the 18 wheeler barreling down on Connor and his motorcycle.

slaneesh are popular because its wood elves with claws.

Tzeentch's niche is awesome TTM and solid ball handling without all the big guy problems.

Nurgle's niche would have been a hybrid between reg. nurgle and vampire team with 6 solid players with great potential surrounded by cheap fodder. but without the speed or ball handling...now they're "meh" with no niche. And people move on.

as for their price, plenty of teams have bargain players. It balances out with the high RR and low quality linemen. many teams do this.

You had it right the first time, Garion.

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Hail to Frik! The latest charioteer to DIE for bloodbowl! - Slain, by Raiders of the Lost Tomb
Garion



Joined: Aug 19, 2009

Post   Posted: Jun 24, 2019 - 21:21 Reply with quote Back to top

Personally I would say they are more comparable to lizardmen. Big guy plus 6 st 4 players. The rest stunty. Somewhere between them and nurgle.

Their niche is an ultra defensive focused team specifically defending in a tarpit style. Absorbing hits. Mass guard, wall of strength just locking the opposition down. This will never be as popular as khorne ultra bash, or slaanesh style elf ball. But to say it's not unique or doesn't fill a niche is innacurate imo, it's just a less popular play style. Their titchy players are also very unique in the game, no other team has anything like them.

No teams have heavily discounted players apart from nautican Who accidentally got ignimbrites too cheap during making things go live, and were left that way because they are a tier 3 stunty team. All the players in secret league are made using the official pricing guide which was used to make the official teams too. This does allow for some small discount but this has already been applied to plaguebearers.

This roster was always ag2 though other than the first few days of secret league when they were accidentially ag3.

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Rigolgm



Joined: Sep 14, 2018

Post   Posted: Jun 24, 2019 - 21:40 Reply with quote Back to top

I love this idea someone suggested. Get this startup team for 830k. 170k in the bank. Then hopefully it will let me get Lewdgrip Whiparm with inducements then, with luck, a Great Unclean One for the second match. Journeymen Nurglings in the second match if needed:

4 Plaguebearers 480K
7 Nurglings 140K
3 Rerolls 210K


Last edited by Rigolgm on Jun 24, 2019 - 21:44; edited 1 time in total
MenonaLoco



Joined: Jan 05, 2016

Post   Posted: Jun 24, 2019 - 21:40 Reply with quote Back to top

Ultra defensive focused team? Locking a team down? I am not at all lost on the bb pitch but - how on earth would you get even close to a nurgle lock-down style of play if you don't have tents? Not even the great unclean one has tents or mutates. The other fatties don't either. Ag3 would be way better than guard. You put that guard anywhere, it gets pushed away or killed.

Lizard style? Yes, the positionals composition remind me of lizards. But they are not even close to lizards in gameplay, since they are WAY too slow and the nurglings are not even worth a quarter skink, each, specially ball wise - that's what skinks are for.

So, they are neither nurgle nor lizards and didn't end up in between the 2. They are more like Khemri. A Khemri with less skills from the start and super vulnerable linos, so they suffer more frequently the ugly situation of being out numbered, out balled, out - classed.
That's a more adecuate comparison. They are a worse Khemri team.

Why not skip guard on the snotlings and give them dirty player as a starting skill instead? It would be obviously better fluff wise.
Since there is this new super high av-skelly team now, the niche for Nurgle demons is a bit crowded now. Their tactical challenge is less unique than before - in addition to their low tier, they are obviously getting less and less popular now and it's not only because of the low tier.
Rigolgm



Joined: Sep 14, 2018

Post   Posted: Jun 24, 2019 - 21:43 Reply with quote Back to top

I love this idea someone suggested. Get this startup team for 830k. 170k in the bank. Then hopefully it will let me get Lewdgrip Whiparm with inducements then, with luck, a Great Unclean One for the second match. Journeymen Nurglings in the second match if needed:

4 Plaguebearers 480K
7 Nurglings 140K
3 Rerolls 210K

(sorry - double posted)
Rigolgm



Joined: Sep 14, 2018

Post   Posted: Jun 24, 2019 - 21:47 Reply with quote Back to top

MenonaLoco wrote:

Since there is this new super high av-skelly team now, the niche for Nurgle demons is a bit crowded now. Their tactical challenge is less unique than before - in addition to their low tier, they are obviously getting less and less popular now and it's not only because of the low tier.


I was thinking Daemons of Nurgle are as good as Khemri. Solid Tier 2 but not low tier (Tier 3). Currently I'm an Ogre player (and I somehow won our last mini league) so hopefully I'll have some intuition about how to put the Nurglings to good use, even if they are much worse at dodging than Snotlings/Grots.

I'm very conscious that Ogre teams are constantly full of holes because Bonehead and Titchy both wreck the influence of tacklezones. It'll be interesting to see how much Daemons of Nurgle can mitigate that problem.
Garion



Joined: Aug 19, 2009

Post   Posted: Jun 24, 2019 - 22:29 Reply with quote Back to top

MenonaLoco wrote:
Ultra defensive focused team? Locking a team down? I am not at all lost on the bb pitch but - how on earth would you get even close to a nurgle lock-down style of play if you don't have tents? Not even the great unclean one has tents or mutates. The other fatties don't either.


I'll try and answer your points one at a time.
So when I am talking about a lock down, I do not mean the tentacles way. There are other ways to achieve this. Mass guard, using your strength advantage to prevent blocks occuring, and dominating the pitch as a result. In a similar way to how Dwarves can achieve this when they have guard all over, or Khemri vs St3 teams, or Lizardmen against certain opposition. I have achieved this before with DoN in a number of games and it is satisfying when your game plan works and your opposition have nothing to do but try and roll a load of dodge dice to reposition en masse. I'm sure you have too in your time with the team.

MenonaLoco wrote:
Ag3 would be way better than guard. You put that guard anywhere, it gets pushed away or killed.


I am not sure what you are referring to here really in your comparison with ag3 being better than guard. The Ag3 was on the Plaguebearers by mistake, they were always meant to be ag2, this was fixed in under a week. The Nurglings were always Ag2. Also if Plaguebearers were Ag2 they would have to be 140k, which would make an interesting starting roster unachievable. Also it would make Ag4 Plaguebearers very common, and occasional ag5 ones would be knocking about. This would go against Nurgle thematics far too much, and would potentially make the roster too good if they were heavily discounted so their starting cost was not increased.

MenonaLoco wrote:
Lizard style? Yes, the positionals composition remind me of lizards. But they are not even close to lizards in gameplay, since they are WAY too slow and the nurglings are not even worth a quarter skink, each, specially ball wise - that's what skinks are for.


When I mention Lizardmen, I am talking purely about the composition of the roster in terms of big guy 6x St4 and stunty players. You are correct that they have a different play style, which is intended and discussed before. and yeah Khmemri is probably closer in play style, though there are some key differences.


MenonaLoco wrote:

Why not skip guard on the Nurglings and give them dirty player as a starting skill instead? It would be obviously better fluff wise.


You may enjoy having DP more, thats your opinion. Though 20k Dp players sounds horrendous to me. However to say it is better fluff wise is incorrect. Gang Up = Guard, it is a direct translation of the Nurglings ability.

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Arktoris



Joined: Feb 16, 2004

Post   Posted: Jun 24, 2019 - 22:49 Reply with quote Back to top

Garion wrote:
Personally I would say they are more comparable to lizardmen.


no, with no speed or ball handling, they're not.

they are most comparable to regular nurgle...minus mutations and any ability to do something with the ball (the whole point of the game).

in other words, unplayable.

Whether it was an accidental stroke of genius or not...you had it right the first time. What a shame.

Plaguebearers were a good hybrid of the bloater and pestigor.

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Hail to Frik! The latest charioteer to DIE for bloodbowl! - Slain, by Raiders of the Lost Tomb
Garion



Joined: Aug 19, 2009

Post   Posted: Jun 24, 2019 - 22:57 Reply with quote Back to top

Arktoris wrote:
Garion wrote:
Personally I would say they are more comparable to lizardmen.


no, with no speed or ball handling, they're not.


That was answered above. I meant in terms of composition of team, not play style.

As to the rest of your post, I respectfully but strongly disagree with all of it.

and I also addressed why ag3 plaguebearers is a no go on my previous post.

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Garion



Joined: Aug 19, 2009

Post   Posted: Jun 24, 2019 - 23:27 Reply with quote Back to top

Rigolgm wrote:
I love this idea someone suggested. Get this startup team for 830k. 170k in the bank. Then hopefully it will let me get Lewdgrip Whiparm with inducements then, with luck, a Great Unclean One for the second match. Journeymen Nurglings in the second match if needed:

4 Plaguebearers 480K
7 Nurglings 140K
3 Rerolls 210K

(sorry - double posted)


What's your league format? Is it table top? How many games etc..

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Arktoris



Joined: Feb 16, 2004

Post   Posted: Jun 24, 2019 - 23:34 Reply with quote Back to top

well, it's your private league. Enjoy.

Secret League was a super idea. The one and only thing that got in the way, was the owner's ADHD need to mess with rosters.

Seeing the "lock" on teams is promising. time will tell if that holds.

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Hail to Frik! The latest charioteer to DIE for bloodbowl! - Slain, by Raiders of the Lost Tomb
delusional



Joined: Jan 18, 2013

Post   Posted: Jun 24, 2019 - 23:37 Reply with quote Back to top

Unless Monstrous mouth does something really cool, that is one bloaty big guy.

Defensively your plaguebearers are going to have to be good at keeping the line, clearly the nurglings cannot. Imagine this would play like a slow Lizardman team.

0-1 Great Unclean One 200,000 3 6 1 10 Loner, Bone Head, Regeneration, Thick Skull, Disturbing Presence, Foul Appearance, Mighty Blow, Nurgle's Rot, Stand Firm, Monstrous Mouth, Throw Team Mate S GAP
Sigmar1



Joined: Aug 13, 2008

Post   Posted: Jun 25, 2019 - 03:04 Reply with quote Back to top

This sounds like a fabulously bad team.

Right up my alley! I think I'm going to try and develop the highest scoring Great Unclean One of all time.

It should take, what, 2 TDs? Smile

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garyt1



Joined: Mar 12, 2011

Post   Posted: Jun 25, 2019 - 04:12 Reply with quote Back to top

They look like they would be dreadful at 1000TV, so that will put people off. But I can see with some agility and/or at least sure hands, some hitting skills including block, they could be reasonable at something like 1300TV. What with 7 strong players and a full bench of Guards.

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