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AzraelEVA



Joined: Nov 14, 2015

Post   Posted: Dec 05, 2020 - 12:59 Reply with quote Back to top

Johnny_KTOU wrote:
Sorry, couldn't find anything on Hail Mary Pass..

It says inaccurate at best, roll Passing Ability test (which seems to be irrelevant of PA), but doesn't technically refers to modifiers. However I'm assuming only the modifiers for tackle zones would apply, not the distances?

So Marked by 1 other player:
- 1 fumble
- 2 wildly inaccurate
- 3+ inaccurate

Without tackles zones, it's just:
- 1 fumble
- 2+ inaccurate

Is that correct?

Actually not even sure the tackle zones apply, just modifiers such as Disturbing Presence?


In the skill description it says the distance ruler is not to be used. So there are no modifiers for distance but there are a modifiers for everything else (sun, being marked, disturbing presence,...) .
Your examples are correct.
C0ddlefish



Joined: Sep 17, 2019

Post   Posted: Dec 05, 2020 - 13:04 Reply with quote Back to top

Wait so HMP has been nerfed too?
neubau



Joined: Nov 12, 2016

Post   Posted: Dec 05, 2020 - 15:54 Reply with quote Back to top

CAB wrote:
so far my experience is that it works pretty well and seem to be a good change, even if we overall pass less, or at least less accurately.


man, youre something else. people didnt want less passing, or worse passing, or passing thats only used for punts. if the new edition causes this then yes, the new rules are bad for passing.

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MattDakka



Joined: Oct 09, 2007

Post   Posted: Dec 05, 2020 - 16:16 Reply with quote Back to top

The thing that the new rules seem to achieve is moving more the ball when you try to pass it (not necessarily in the right direction). The problem is that you have less control on where the ball will be!
CAB



Joined: Aug 02, 2003

Post   Posted: Dec 05, 2020 - 23:49 Reply with quote Back to top

neubau wrote:
CAB wrote:
so far my experience is that it works pretty well and seem to be a good change, even if we overall pass less, or at least less accurately.


man, youre something else. people didnt want less passing, or worse passing, or passing thats only used for punts. if the new edition causes this then yes, the new rules are bad for passing.


In my opinion the new system work pretty well. The Thrower are now more important so you need to protect that player. It also is more important where the thrower is positioned so you can take advantage of the extra pass over a single handover.

This is actually a change that will for some teams have an impact on how you play to some extent.

Teams that don't have any reliable throwers will now be relegated to a single hand off per turn or a risky quick/short pass in emergencies.

It simply is a change in my opinion that is neither good nor bad. It just is a tactical change we now need to deal with.

It will not lead to more passing but it will lead to more actual Throwers doing the passing in the game.

In my opinion I think that in a few years very few people will want to move back to how it was before... I'm sure of it now after I have played with it for a while. Even if we did the passing a bit wrong at first.
stej



Joined: Jan 05, 2009

Post   Posted: Dec 06, 2020 - 00:34 Reply with quote Back to top

But mathematically, passing is worse right?
CAB



Joined: Aug 02, 2003

Post   Posted: Dec 06, 2020 - 00:58 Reply with quote Back to top

stej wrote:
But mathematically, passing is worse right?


Yes!!!
JanMattys



Joined: Feb 29, 2004

Post   Posted: Dec 06, 2020 - 19:44 Reply with quote Back to top

stej wrote:
But mathematically, passing is worse right?

Yes and they did so by making the throwers covertly worse, and the rest openly worse. Rolling Eyes Laughing

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neubau



Joined: Nov 12, 2016

Post   Posted: Dec 07, 2020 - 12:13 Reply with quote Back to top

JanMattys wrote:

Yes and they did so by making the throwers covertly worse, and the rest openly worse. Rolling Eyes Laughing


to summarize: passing wasnt good already, now its way worse, but the new passing rules arent bad.

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Vompo



Joined: Nov 15, 2020

Post   Posted: Dec 07, 2020 - 14:03 Reply with quote Back to top

neubau wrote:
JanMattys wrote:

Yes and they did so by making the throwers covertly worse, and the rest openly worse. Rolling Eyes Laughing


to summarize: passing wasnt good already, now its way worse, but the new passing rules arent bad.


Can't improved passing also be interpreted as improving the game mechanics, not necessarily making the passing easier in the game per se?

CAB for example is only trying (I think) to explain why he thinks the change could be good even if the passing seems to have been made more difficult on average. It's a bit weird to me that you constantly seem to pull him on his comments in a bit derogatory way.

Oh and I have no idea how and how much the new rules will change the game. Those kind of comments just make a very interesting thread less fun to read.
Arthas85



Joined: Apr 27, 2006

Post   Posted: Dec 07, 2020 - 14:11 Reply with quote Back to top

Honestly, it is so evident that passing is worse in so many ways that stating the opposite in spite of all the evidence is quite close to trolling.

If you look at 99% of games here (but also live) running playstyle is absolutely dominant and it will be even more now with the new rules.
Vompo



Joined: Nov 15, 2020

Post   Posted: Dec 07, 2020 - 14:39 Reply with quote Back to top

Arthas85 wrote:
Honestly, it is so evident that passing is worse in so many ways that stating the opposite in spite of all the evidence is quite close to trolling.

If you look at 99% of games here (but also live) running playstyle is absolutely dominant and it will be even more now with the new rules.


This kind of thinking is very weird to me. The guy isn't even saying that passing is better, he says he has tested the game with the new rules and says he is enjoying it and how the changes have affected the gameplay. He has also made his points in a very constructive way making sure people should realize it is only his opinion. How can it be described trolling?

But that's that from me on this topic.
neubau



Joined: Nov 12, 2016

Post   Posted: Dec 07, 2020 - 15:09 Reply with quote Back to top

mate, i wrote it here a thousand times already. people didnt want worse passing. gw advertised a new and exciting passing system, which it is not.

i freely admit i only write into this thread to tell CAB his takes are horrible, but thats because they are.

edit: also, CAB has written quite controversial stuff in a lot of threads, he got malmir, one of the best coaches of the site to actually insult him and quite a few others called him out on his out-there takes. his latest "the rules arent bad because on table top you can ignore them" take - ON THE FUMBBL FORUM, where we cant do that, makes me pretty sure he is trolling. so when CAB is trolling, why shouldnt i troll him back.

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Last edited by neubau on Dec 07, 2020 - 15:13; edited 2 times in total
MattDakka



Joined: Oct 09, 2007

Post   Posted: Dec 07, 2020 - 15:12 Reply with quote Back to top

Enjoying more the new passing rules is not something you can use to endorse the new rules.
When passing rules are discussed, the people here criticizing them are talking about the mathematical odds of successfully passing (or not failing catastrophically the passes), not how much is fun (or not fun) to throw the ball with bb2020 rules.
Fun is too much subjective and not measurable to be used to back up the new passing rules.
Java



Joined: Jan 27, 2018

Post   Posted: Dec 07, 2020 - 15:14 Reply with quote Back to top

The two sides of this "debate" are not arguing over the same issue.

One side is saying that passing is worse.

The other replies "it works quite nicely and you have to adapt".

Which is not a counterargument to the original statement, and that's why people take it as provocation, because it completely misses the point that was originally made.

Of course one could present it in the reverse, but the starting point of of contention was always "is it really better, or is it actually worse?" because the promotional material from GW mentioned quite extensively how much passing had been improved.



Honestly, who cares, dwarves don't need to pass the ball.

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