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ClayInfinity



Joined: Aug 15, 2003

Post   Posted: Dec 12, 2020 - 02:55 Reply with quote Back to top

So, I read all this stuff about multiple RR's per turn and that you can risk doing riskier acts as a result...

But the trade off for RR's is TV... TV is capped at Season's start at 1300.

So how many rerolls will people carry? If you have a RR cost of say 60k, 5 RR's is 300k of your 1300k so essentially you're playing with a rookie team each season start.

Is cash generation high enough that you can start at 3RR's and get to 7 or 8 by season end?

Will a mid season 1600 TV team with 2RR's be more efficient / successful vs a 1600 TV team with 5RR's?

I am intrigued as to what people's "theory bowl" theories are on this...
Wolbum



Joined: Jul 14, 2010

Post   Posted: Dec 12, 2020 - 03:10 Reply with quote Back to top

I think a lot of hysteria has emerged over this. While being able to use TRR multiple times during a turn is a huge plus, this still doesn't change the fact they are a finite resource.

On paper, I can see teams like humans with in-built rerolls and elves with ag 2+ benefiting the most from this. But ultimately, the dynamic of needing to be reserved and preserve your RR will remain.

I can see the highs being higher and lows being lower. Elven BS pushed the extra mile as well as a double skull, reroll to pushes, then happening again in the same turn.

Not to mention the importance of DF in a re-draft season, assuring decent winnings per patch to keep the team going.
CAB



Joined: Aug 02, 2003

Post   Posted: Dec 12, 2020 - 03:27 Reply with quote Back to top

My prediction is that you generally might want one perhaps two extra re-rolls but it likely will depend on your team.

You might even be more inclined to not waste re-rolls in singles now for that turn you really need multiple re-rolls. But it obviously depend on the game and what happens.

I think it also depend on if you play in a League or in match-making.

I don't think that starting teams will look any different from before, but you might buy more re-rolls later on if you can afford them.

When you redraft teams you also might not see that many more re-rolls than before, sometimes less as you want to get as many old players as possible and then buy new re-rolls as soon as you can afford them. You might start with Leader too.


Last edited by CAB on Dec 12, 2020 - 03:29; edited 1 time in total
Waagh



Joined: Apr 13, 2019

Post   Posted: Dec 12, 2020 - 03:54 Reply with quote Back to top

I would think teams without the starting skills will want more re rolls though only the durable teams will be able to afford them. Leader? Idk maybe if you have a cheap player to be a leader caddy? I am partial to the run game so I see very little value in throwers. Maybe teams with "runners"?
tussock



Joined: May 29, 2011

Post   Posted: Dec 12, 2020 - 06:43 Reply with quote Back to top

Cash generation should hit about 80-90k per game. So buying rerolls for the first five games of a season could be thing, if you don't need a bench, an Apo, and replacements for the dead.

Still, 1200 earnings in 15 games, teams can kinda buy what they want. So it's more a question of what's stronger, more RRs, more bench, spreading out the basic skills, or having lower TV and getting star players or wizards. Or dumping cash on carefully chosen inducements some games?

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C0ddlefish



Joined: Sep 17, 2019

Post   Posted: Dec 12, 2020 - 08:32 Reply with quote Back to top

Isn't he average income going to be about 70 rather than 80-90k?
DF settling at 3 or 4 (unless you win nearly every game and happen to keep playing opposition who also win every game).

So let's say (((DF1 + DF2) + (2 X D3))/2) + TD for your team (presumably 1 for an average team)

(((3+4) + (2+2))/2) + 1 = 6.5 = 65k

You are right though, it still likely to be plenty of spare cash to add some some as you go.
SkittleMosaic



Joined: May 17, 2018

Post   Posted: Dec 12, 2020 - 09:48 Reply with quote Back to top

C0ddlefish wrote:
Isn't he average income going to be about 70 rather than 80-90k?
DF settling at 3 or 4 (unless you win nearly every game and happen to keep playing opposition who also win every game).

So let's say (((DF1 + DF2) + (2 X D3))/2) + TD for your team (presumably 1 for an average team)

(((3+4) + (2+2))/2) + 1 = 6.5 = 65k

You are right though, it still likely to be plenty of spare cash to add some some as you go.


DF will equalize at 4. It goes up if you win and roll equal or higher than your current, but only goes down if you lose and roll under your current.
C0ddlefish



Joined: Sep 17, 2019

Post   Posted: Dec 12, 2020 - 10:47 Reply with quote Back to top

Fair enough. So average income is 70k
Lasgalen



Joined: Jun 30, 2018

Post   Posted: Dec 12, 2020 - 11:30 Reply with quote Back to top

i don't get how this can benefit the game if rrs generally have not been repriced making this new rule useful for teams with built in skills which ALREADY had the cheapest rr on the market.
It just seems stupid to me.
It helps teams that can save money during the season because their best players beacuse of high AV will survive games and you can save for rrs even after season started.
It won't help teams like OWA or stunties or teams with loners and negatrait.
Let's say it out loud, it is just stupid, making the game more dice depending, random because it encourage luckers to do crazy things and get away with it and probably unfair.

But hey, it's 2020! fun!
Lyracian



Joined: Oct 29, 2015

Post   Posted: Dec 12, 2020 - 13:53 Reply with quote Back to top

Lasgalen wrote:

It won't help teams like OWA or stunties or teams with loners and negatrait.
But hey, it's 2020! fun!

I disagree my Goblins often fail OTT because of only having a single re-roll for the turn. Every team benefits from being able to improve the odds on that turn 7 or 8 play.

C0ddlefish wrote:
So let's say (((DF1 + DF2) + (2 X D3))/2) + TD for your team (presumably 1 for an average team)
(((3+4) + (2+2))/2) + 1 = 6.5 = 65k

Page 24 says to round up which gives us 70k with one Touchdown. If you usually win with the 2-1 grind you are getting 80k.

My Skaven team usually have 180k for 3 TRR. Now it will be 200k for 4 TRR. 20k for an extra seems good.

I also see having less players with skill re-rolls. Partly because of the re-draft rules and partly because of this. You no longer need to hand off to the guy with catch so you can save the TRR for Rushing. You can use the first to catch the ball and a second, if needed, to stop him falling down.
CAB



Joined: Aug 02, 2003

Post   Posted: Dec 12, 2020 - 13:53 Reply with quote Back to top

It should help all teams.. in my last game I played with Dwarves and I have a few turns where I basically just sprinted the team rushing with most players and doing a couple of dodges as well in order to cover the ball and then score the next turn.

My opponent was a bit stoked with the Dwarves moving that fast... perhaps that is just an adjustment and we now have to expect such moves even from Dwarves.

Movement is also important and that is usually just 2+ rolls and 3+ dodges with guaranteed re-roll can also make a big impact on the game in those crucial turns you need to burst forward toward the touchdown line.
Lasgalen



Joined: Jun 30, 2018

Post   Posted: Dec 12, 2020 - 14:22 Reply with quote Back to top

It will benefit some teams more than others and those teams have already the cheapest RR.
I don't get how can be a nice add if RR were not repriced accordingly
MattDakka



Joined: Oct 09, 2007

Post   Posted: Dec 12, 2020 - 14:34 Reply with quote Back to top

Lyracian wrote:

My Skaven team usually have 180k for 3 TRR. Now it will be 200k for 4 TRR. 20k for an extra seems good.

Yes, but on the other hand Gutter Runner's price has been increased to 85k and the Thrower's to 85k.
Waagh



Joined: Apr 13, 2019

Post   Posted: Dec 12, 2020 - 15:27 Reply with quote Back to top

The throwers just feel like they aren't good leader caddies. 85k for a thrower 20k for the leader skill is 105. A line rat and a re roll is 100k. Idk I guess you get the throwing option and sure hands for 5k which is fine I guess. High elf thrower seems even worse. 100k +20k instead of 70k +50k for a line elf? Idk I guess that's even money so maybe it's better. Just thinking out loud here.

Still if you lose your leader you lose your rr so there is some risk there too.
Cyrus-Havoc



Joined: Sep 15, 2006

Post   Posted: Dec 12, 2020 - 16:04 Reply with quote Back to top

Don't like the new rule but I can see it could be useful.

It will be 3 RR for most teams as now 2 if I can't afford three, then 4 for Vampires if possible. A leader re-roll may just be an extra one now rather than a replacement. Also makes getting another as an inducement worth considering more than curently.

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