66 coaches online • Server time: 23:18
Forum Chat
Log in
Recent Forum Topics goto Post ramchop takes on the...goto Post NBFL Season 32: The ...goto Post Creating a custom to...
SearchSearch 
Post new topic   Reply to topic
View previous topic Log in to check your private messages View next topic
Foho



Joined: May 05, 2020

Post   Posted: Feb 19, 2021 - 17:54 Reply with quote Back to top

I wonder if the dwarves' economy will be able to handle it, being a 1-0 or 2-1 kind of team hurt money generation.
spinball



Joined: Jul 01, 2004

Post   Posted: Feb 19, 2021 - 19:04 Reply with quote Back to top

I would love for us to have a division of only random skills and another of picked skills. I think that would at least put everyone upon even footing
Wozzaa



Joined: Apr 23, 2016

Post   Posted: Feb 19, 2021 - 19:37 Reply with quote Back to top

spinball wrote:
I would love for us to have a division of only random skills and another of picked skills. I think that would at least put everyone upon even footing


You should make a random skill league.

Or play in the normal division with random skills as a challenge.

_________________
Image
Kondor



Joined: Apr 04, 2008

Post   Posted: Feb 19, 2021 - 20:07 Reply with quote Back to top

Well, I will be the negative person here. My opinion is that a 15 game season combined with random MVP completely kills my interest in the new skills. Very few players outside of elves will have more than two skills. The elf players will also be very short lived.

Your teams that are good at low TV are going to dominate. Taking random skills at the end of the season simply helps them more than any other teams. If you don't like the random skill generated just fire the player for the next season.

Teams with a wide choice of skills on random rolls will be hurt further by this as it is less likely you will get a good skill. Chaos is only the worst example, but a elf thrower could get anything from general, agility, or throwing. There are quite a few loser skills in that bunch.

The point will be to take the good skills you roll randomly and keep your TV low on teams that are already good at low TV. This will help Dwarfs, Amazons, Norse, Orcs, and Humans I think.
mrt1212



Joined: Feb 26, 2013

Post   Posted: Feb 19, 2021 - 20:31 Reply with quote Back to top

Kondor wrote:
Well, I will be the negative person here. My opinion is that a 15 game season combined with random MVP completely kills my interest in the new skills. Very few players outside of elves will have more than two skills. The elf players will also be very short lived.

Your teams that are good at low TV are going to dominate. Taking random skills at the end of the season simply helps them more than any other teams. If you don't like the random skill generated just fire the player for the next season.

Teams with a wide choice of skills on random rolls will be hurt further by this as it is less likely you will get a good skill. Chaos is only the worst example, but a elf thrower could get anything from general, agility, or throwing. There are quite a few loser skills in that bunch.

The point will be to take the good skills you roll randomly and keep your TV low on teams that are already good at low TV. This will help Dwarfs, Amazons, Norse, Orcs, and Humans I think.


My optimistic retort is that the definition of a good skill will change from one of situation agnostic consensus to situation contextualized debate Wink
Grasshugger17



Joined: Jun 29, 2020

Post   Posted: Feb 19, 2021 - 21:51 Reply with quote Back to top

mrt1212 wrote:
Kondor wrote:
Well, I will be the negative person here. My opinion is that a 15 game season combined with random MVP completely kills my interest in the new skills. Very few players outside of elves will have more than two skills. The elf players will also be very short lived.

Your teams that are good at low TV are going to dominate. Taking random skills at the end of the season simply helps them more than any other teams. If you don't like the random skill generated just fire the player for the next season.

Teams with a wide choice of skills on random rolls will be hurt further by this as it is less likely you will get a good skill. Chaos is only the worst example, but a elf thrower could get anything from general, agility, or throwing. There are quite a few loser skills in that bunch.

The point will be to take the good skills you roll randomly and keep your TV low on teams that are already good at low TV. This will help Dwarfs, Amazons, Norse, Orcs, and Humans I think.


My optimistic retort is that the definition of a good skill will change from one of situation agnostic consensus to situation contextualized debate Wink


Wut?
JackassRampant



Joined: Feb 26, 2011

Post   Posted: Feb 19, 2021 - 23:08 Reply with quote Back to top

Kondor wrote:
Teams with a wide choice of skills on random rolls will be hurt further by this as it is less likely you will get a good skill. Chaos is only the worst example, but a elf thrower could get anything from general, agility, or throwing. There are quite a few loser skills in that bunch.
Don't you pick the category?

_________________
Veni, Vidi, Risi
MrCushtie



Joined: Aug 10, 2018

Post   Posted: Feb 20, 2021 - 03:33 Reply with quote Back to top

mrt1212 wrote:


My optimistic retort is that the definition of a good skill will change from one of situation agnostic consensus to situation contextualized debate Wink


This fits well with the last line of Wittgenstein's Tractatus: 'that of which we cannot speak, we must remain silent'; a phrase which was often assumed to relate to the eternal debate around T16 fouling, but in fact refers to his speechlessness when he discovered people were still prioritising other skills over Frenzy.

_________________
Image
mrt1212



Joined: Feb 26, 2013

Post   Posted: Feb 20, 2021 - 08:53 Reply with quote Back to top

Grasshugger17 wrote:
mrt1212 wrote:
Kondor wrote:
Well, I will be the negative person here. My opinion is that a 15 game season combined with random MVP completely kills my interest in the new skills. Very few players outside of elves will have more than two skills. The elf players will also be very short lived.

Your teams that are good at low TV are going to dominate. Taking random skills at the end of the season simply helps them more than any other teams. If you don't like the random skill generated just fire the player for the next season.

Teams with a wide choice of skills on random rolls will be hurt further by this as it is less likely you will get a good skill. Chaos is only the worst example, but a elf thrower could get anything from general, agility, or throwing. There are quite a few loser skills in that bunch.

The point will be to take the good skills you roll randomly and keep your TV low on teams that are already good at low TV. This will help Dwarfs, Amazons, Norse, Orcs, and Humans I think.


My optimistic retort is that the definition of a good skill will change from one of situation agnostic consensus to situation contextualized debate Wink


Wut?


The meta changes and having the varied assortment of skills on the pitch matters more and is seen as useful than it does now. Considering the SPP cost and how how almost every General skill bar kick is situational at worst...we might talk about how tactics and strategies that hinge more on 'what to do with what you got when you got them' and less 'how to build a good team that covers all the bases'

I hope that the meta is actually going to be fantastic with BB2020 if you're look at it that way. If you wind up with 3 Dirty players randomly, how does your gameplan change and do you still bring home a win?
mrt1212



Joined: Feb 26, 2013

Post   Posted: Feb 20, 2021 - 10:08 Reply with quote Back to top

Also, I'm running through all the skill paths right now so I can show you the most SPP efficient order. First glance, taking more expensive skills earlier is more efficient because of the level to level delta, in SPP required, is steeper according to type of skill selection. Or put another way, random skills are always cheaper the later you wait to take them, relative to other options.
Grasshugger17



Joined: Jun 29, 2020

Post   Posted: Feb 20, 2021 - 13:26 Reply with quote Back to top

mrt1212 wrote:
Grasshugger17 wrote:
mrt1212 wrote:
Kondor wrote:
Well, I will be the negative person here. My opinion is that a 15 game season combined with random MVP completely kills my interest in the new skills. Very few players outside of elves will have more than two skills. The elf players will also be very short lived.

Your teams that are good at low TV are going to dominate. Taking random skills at the end of the season simply helps them more than any other teams. If you don't like the random skill generated just fire the player for the next season.

Teams with a wide choice of skills on random rolls will be hurt further by this as it is less likely you will get a good skill. Chaos is only the worst example, but a elf thrower could get anything from general, agility, or throwing. There are quite a few loser skills in that bunch.

The point will be to take the good skills you roll randomly and keep your TV low on teams that are already good at low TV. This will help Dwarfs, Amazons, Norse, Orcs, and Humans I think.


My optimistic retort is that the definition of a good skill will change from one of situation agnostic consensus to situation contextualized debate Wink


Wut?


The meta changes and having the varied assortment of skills on the pitch matters more and is seen as useful than it does now. Considering the SPP cost and how how almost every General skill bar kick is situational at worst...we might talk about how tactics and strategies that hinge more on 'what to do with what you got when you got them' and less 'how to build a good team that covers all the bases'

I hope that the meta is actually going to be fantastic with BB2020 if you're look at it that way. If you wind up with 3 Dirty players randomly, how does your gameplan change and do you still bring home a win?


Right, ok, I got you. I think. Yeah, I'm definitely more of a 'what to do with what you got when you got it' man. I've never liked the inflexibility of the 'how to build a good team that covers all the bases' crowd.

Personally I'm looking forward to random mutations on Underworld, Pact and even Chaos Chosen. Also I'm looking forward to trying some picked mutations on the like of Chaos Dwarves. Snotlings and Rat Ogre on Underworld. Wraiths on Necro. Oh mate, where does one start?

These are fun times we're living in bros!

Don't waste it.
Lyracian



Joined: Oct 29, 2015

Post   Posted: Feb 20, 2021 - 17:15 Reply with quote Back to top

mrt1212 wrote:
Or put another way, random skills are always cheaper the later you wait to take them, relative to other options.

They are always cheaper but to my mind the more skills you have the less you want random skills next.

For example if you have a Wrestle Tackle player then you probably want Strip Ball next not Shadowing or Dirty Player.

I can see it working for some players. Example an Ogre taking Block and then just random Str Skills. Most of the time though I think it is the first one or two skills you take random and then you want complementary skills or save up for a stat.
stej



Joined: Jan 05, 2009

Post   Posted: Feb 20, 2021 - 17:50 Reply with quote Back to top

I think they missed a trick, they could have priced all the skills up as SPP costs and removed the skill ups altogether. Yeah, it would remove the randomness of player development, but could be tweaked to incentivise differebt types of play. Also, you wouldnt be limited to 6 skill ups, you could potentially have more if you took weaker skills (e.g. Block might cost 10spp whereas shadowing might cost 2spp). Secondary skill trees could have their own costings (i.e block as a secondary could be 15spp)
Something like that.
Would allow for variety in the meta, with a fairly straightforward tool for balancing OP skill combos (you want piling on to make your killstack? That'll be 20spp please)
Kondor



Joined: Apr 04, 2008

Post   Posted: Feb 21, 2021 - 00:56 Reply with quote Back to top

JackassRampant wrote:
Kondor wrote:
Teams with a wide choice of skills on random rolls will be hurt further by this as it is less likely you will get a good skill. Chaos is only the worst example, but a elf thrower could get anything from general, agility, or throwing. There are quite a few loser skills in that bunch.
Don't you pick the category?


I just read the rule. Yep you are correct.
Display posts from previous:     
 Jump to:   
All times are GMT + 1 Hour
Post new topic   Reply to topic
View previous topic Log in to check your private messages View next topic