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Kenku



Joined: Apr 02, 2020

Post   Posted: Mar 24, 2021 - 13:52 Reply with quote Back to top

OK premise time, there is a competition to alter a current team 2020 rules. I wanted to do something significant and not just 'here vamps need this change to fix them'. I have Skaeths wild hunt models (GW Pic, My Pic) from playing underworlds and thought they were an interesting variant on wood elves, also they have a heavy focus on being a sect follow Kurnoth much like the Kurnoth Hunters (GW pic) that many blood bowl players have used for treemen.

So with these models as a base I wanted to make something based on the wood elf roster but more interesting, hopefully I aim at a power level slightly below what they currently stand at. The linesmen would be mostly the same, though I wanted to emphasize the idea of their satyr form. Animals that move of 2 reverse jointed legs are often known more for jumping than running so an immediate speed decrease was in the books (an idea that ended up populating the whole roster) then looking through the skills VLL surprised me in how well it might fit and avoiding the 'Leap team' idea that we get in Slann.
I wanted 1 more positional for the satyr type so went with a runner instead of separate throwers and catchers, quicker, weaker, more Ag focused.
Next the Centaurs, would be mostly based on the Chaos dwarf centaur, but very much a blitzer to replace the wardancer (I've got a problem with pricing this guy, as I couldn't believe the wardancer was cheaper than the bull centaur), but faster, less armour and block seemed to be good.
The Kurnoth hunter model as a treeman always has seemed a bit dissonant to me as it looks far more lithe than a move 2 piece. A take root ogre seemed to fit the bill far more closely.
Finally the kitty/lion i wanted to include because it is cute. It has 4 legs, so rule of team means 4 legs=surefeet, no hands obviously, nice stunty stats and then to give it some USP stab (would be a harrying part of a kurnothi hunting pack bleeding out the prey to slow it for the larger hunters) and claws to me seemed more like the crushing claws or a daemonette than this thing has.
Sidenote rerolls increased over wood elves for theme reasons, these are less natural game players.

TLDR: Here is a theme team, would like help balancing it to be powered more mid-high tier and I am not great on costing players, especially with the centaur (bull centaur/wardancer mix).

# Positional MA ST AG PA AV Skills Cost
0-16 Kurnothi Linesmen 6 3 2+ 4+ 8+ Very Long Legs AG(S) 70k
0-2 Kurnothi Runners 7 2 2+ 4+ 8+ Very Long Legs, Dodge, Sprint A(PG) 90k
0-2 Kurnothi Centaur Blitzer 7 4 3+ 5+ 9+ Sure Feet, Sprint, Block GS(A) 130k
0-2 Hunting Cat 6 2 3+ - 7+ Sure Feet, No Hands, Stunty, Stab A(GS) 50k
0-1 Kurnothi Treefolk 5 5 4+ 5+ 10+ S(AG) Mighty Blow(+1), Thick Skull, Loner(4+), Take Root, Throw Teammate S(AG) 140k
RR=60K
Apoth

Thanks for your time, and for the third time I'm gonna say really confused about the centaur. Seems both the wardancer is undercosted and bull centaurs are overcosted. Leaving my centaurs at 130 for now as it seems right for the team. 960 for a team with full positonals and no rerolls so a nice choice to make there.
Patator



Joined: Jan 05, 2015

Post   Posted: Mar 24, 2021 - 18:28 Reply with quote Back to top

Hi! I am no expert but I like the general idea and I can see myelf trying it with one exeption : the hunting cat. I (and it is only my biased opinion) really don't like animals on the pitch. Animals are not players, they cant synchronize with the rest of the team and be trained enough to respect the rules.

The reason "because they're cute" doesnt work either ^^

If you think you need a third positional maybe a thrower ? It will still be very different from the woodies. Or 0-4 runners ?
Patator



Joined: Jan 05, 2015

Post   Posted: Mar 24, 2021 - 18:30 Reply with quote Back to top

Oh and the satyr leg should not make them slower. Maybe not faster but certainly not slower, confer professional athlete prothesis.
Kenku



Joined: Apr 02, 2020

Post   Posted: Mar 24, 2021 - 19:14 Reply with quote Back to top

Thanks, thanks for your comments, love that you would like to try them yourself. Yes "because they are cute" was a throwaway comment. There isn't too much info on the Kurnoth faction that I'm aware of so I'm not going to remove them just yet as it includes a part that we do know about. Also adds a lower cost player which could be a throwaway/stopgap and as we've seen with DE assassins there would be quite a few that wouldn't include it. I shall consider.

Being slower I felt was as much of a way for me to reduce the tier of the team as headcannon for how they would work. As for having a 'slower' team, this is not quite what I was aiming at, rather having their full speed come at a risk, they've got to jump over a prone player or roll GFI's. 2 hooved creatures don't exist in nature for a reason, risk of slipping would be high.
DaCoach



Joined: Jul 22, 2004

Post   Posted: Mar 24, 2021 - 20:26 Reply with quote Back to top

Need a positional with Right stuff to get thrown by Throw Teammate, or am I wrong?
Apus



Joined: Dec 21, 2017

Post   Posted: Mar 24, 2021 - 22:02 Reply with quote Back to top

Seeing you have a Satyr, it reminded me of the Forest Folk roster from 3rd Edition Compendium:

0-4 Gnome 40,000 6 2 3 7 Dogde, stunty, ride* :A : GSP

0-4 Centaur 100,000 7 4 3 8 Surehoofs (like surefeets) :GS : AP

0-12 Satyr 60,000 6 3 3 7 Horns, regenerate :G :SPA

0-1 Treeman 110,000 2 6 1 10 Mighty Blow, Thick Skull, Loner, Stand Firm, Throw TeamMate, Take Root :S: GAP

Re-rolls: 50,000 Gp each.

The ride skill meant the Forest Gnomes could ride on the centaur.
Kenku



Joined: Apr 02, 2020

Post   Posted: Mar 24, 2021 - 22:46 Reply with quote Back to top

Back to the cat issue, a friend suggested a tracker for the 4th positional instead which I liked. Would play a defensive backfield or harassing role. Makes it harder to make a full team on creation, but elves...
0-2 Kurnothi Tracker 6 3 2+ 3+ 8+ Very Long Legs, Shadowing, Diving Tackle GP(A) 80k


@DaCoach: not necessarily, if a big guy would have TTM it seems to have TTM in whatever team it ends up in, see wood elves and imperial nobility.

@Apus: Oooh, quite similar, love seeing the older stuff before my time. Curious how close I got with the centaur and feeling justified on the differences between these satyrs and the elf/satyrs.
BlockBadger



Joined: Jan 21, 2021

Post   Posted: Mar 24, 2021 - 23:36 Reply with quote Back to top

I do worry about having St4 block, and dodge 2+ on the same team.
St4 with a 3+ agility are rare and powerful, to then also have a potential move of 10 is nuts.
As a minim I'd remove block, but I'd recommend reducing their speed or reducing their agility and passing.

Think about it this way, its a chaos chosen without M access and +2 movement, block, and almost a third square of movement. Yes you lost 1AV, but this entire package only costs 30k more for around 70k worth of skills, that they get to start with. A bull Centaur is the same price as this and despite being a great unit, is overshadowed but this.

They can almost keep pace with a gutter! XD If you really want to keep those skills, drop its St to 3, and its cost to 110k~ ish.
Kenku



Joined: Apr 02, 2020

Post   Posted: Mar 24, 2021 - 23:56 Reply with quote Back to top

All good points, model is less beefy than bulls, they are meant to be more akin to wardancers, I like the price drop and the different levels of cost of the players, done.
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