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Nabolo



Joined: Oct 17, 2014

Post 22 Posted: Aug 03, 2021 - 11:16 Reply with quote Back to top

I've had a flash yesterday eve after rerere-questioning the optimization of my Human Team, which starts a 15 games league + final phases next september.

What about :

Ogre
4x Blitzer
1x Thrower
2x Linemen
3x Halflin
4x Rr
1x Apo

My theory is as follow :
- 4 Rr (given we can use several per turn) are interesting (for a cheaper price)
- I've got a LOS with Ogre + 2 linemen
- Halflin can be hard to block at low TV
- They can be a pain, I can TTM them for OTT or interceptions, they can foul
- If they die they'll be replaced by an average lineman (so I actually get a free bonus in TV)
- If they turn MVP i can randomly select one skills for +10k value as most suit them
- Apo is necessary at start to protect my blitzers and Ogre
>>>> if Halflins fail me all (death) I'll have 3 linemen for the next game, if they don't, well, it means it works, and I can buy a new lineman every two games hopefully



So, by game 6 I'll have a complete team with linemen and hopefully some remaining halflins.

Catchers ? I might take one then two later on, after the team has upped a little, using my blitzers and their extra RR to dodge & score.

What do you think of this ?
Nabolo



Joined: Oct 17, 2014

Post   Posted: Aug 03, 2021 - 11:19 Reply with quote Back to top

Oh, and it helps the Ogre gaining SPP !
JanMattys



Joined: Feb 29, 2004

Post   Posted: Aug 03, 2021 - 11:46 Reply with quote Back to top

The only problem I see is that the perfect ballcarrier for humans are the catchers. Also, they become good pieces once skilled, and if you take them later they will probably be underskilled in the final.

How about starting with a catcher instead of the thrower? You're not going to pass much anyway, and a catcher ballcarrier is much better suited for a running game. He will get more spps for scoring, ideally get block at the first or second game tops, and become very good before your opponents get tackle.

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Nabolo



Joined: Oct 17, 2014

Post   Posted: Aug 03, 2021 - 12:39 Reply with quote Back to top

Thanks for your advice Jan, it's a good one !
The only issue is : thrower gain SPP slowly, while Catchers get SPP fast.
So it will be harder for a thrower to catch up in terms of SPP... nevertheless, if he is in to play his role, he doesn't need many more skills than SH and Pass to do his job.
+
I save 15K which is close to guarantee a new lineman for next game ? (not sure yet how money will be calculated)
Or is it better to buy a dedicated fan ?
JanMattys



Joined: Feb 29, 2004

Post   Posted: Aug 03, 2021 - 13:20 Reply with quote Back to top

I'd say that with a catcher you are more likely to score two tds per game, and as a result you will get more money.
I don't value the thrower much, unless you plan to get leader and play with less rerolls, keeping the tv down. which doesnt seem the case for your roster. The only real value of the thrower is surehands, which is undoubtedly useful in the first turn. But other than that, sticking to a running game with a blodge catcher ballcarrier seems better.

Remember though, that down the line your team will become increasingly frail. You will field four av7 or less, and the halflings will become a liability: as soon as tacklers and mbs show up. You can protect the catcher in a cage, but you will definitely get hurt in a 15 games run.

Your roster is a bit of a gamble. You are probably stronger than a "standard" human roster in the first games. I'm not sure you'll be able to stay ahead of the curve once the tacklers roam the pitch. It all depends on how bloodthirsty your opponents are, and which rosters you end up playing against in the first five games, I suppose.

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Nabolo



Joined: Oct 17, 2014

Post   Posted: Aug 03, 2021 - 13:28 Reply with quote Back to top

Do you take in account that :
- Human thrower is PA 2+ ?
- I will replace the Halflin with Linemen every chance I get (every 1 or 2 games), and that if they die they'll be replaced by mercenaries anyway ?

(just to be sure Wink
JanMattys



Joined: Feb 29, 2004

Post   Posted: Aug 03, 2021 - 14:03 Reply with quote Back to top

Thrower is only 2+ on the quick pass if I'm not mistaken. Not THAT useful, compared to a ballcarrier who can move 8 every round and comes equipped with dodge. If you said "I'm going to buy both", I'd definitely vote for it. But since you can only afford one or the other for the starting roster, I'd say catcher gets the priority. He needs skills more, and is a better first choice, so to me it's a no brainer.
As per the replacement, that's ok. You keep the only good halfling (maybe the one who rolls sidestep as a random?, and slowly turn the other into more reliable fodder.

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Nabolo



Joined: Oct 17, 2014

Post   Posted: Aug 03, 2021 - 15:09 Reply with quote Back to top

Thx for your advices, they're good ! =)
Mingoose



Joined: Jul 28, 2016

Post   Posted: Aug 04, 2021 - 05:19 Reply with quote Back to top

I think the catcher will be the most important guy on the field for a human team. The ability to rapidly acquire DP/SG is a game changer. You could realistically get a catcher up to that after game 3, and enjoy the most powerful skill combo on a MA 8 piece with dodge for 12 games.
Catalyst32



Joined: Jul 14, 2008

Post   Posted: Oct 20, 2021 - 14:03 Reply with quote Back to top

JanMattys wrote:
If you said "I'm going to buy both", I'd definitely vote for it.



I'm going to have to agree with JanMattys on this point.

Why would you need the extra Reroll if you have Sure Hands and Pass on a player and Catch and Dodge on another player?

--That 2+ To Pass is not nearly as good as having the Automatic Reroll if the 1st Pass Roll is inaccurate OR that Catch Reroll if the 1st Catch Roll is inaccurate.

--Sure Hands on a ST 3 player is about the only Defense against Wood Elves, who will have Strip Ball almost instantly.

--MA 8 gives you a chance for a 1 turn Touchdown without an Ogre or Halfling.

--Having Thrower AND a Catcher makes scoring in 2 Turns up ether Sideline relatively easy.

--Who is going to be best to pick up the ball on DEFENSE when you find a way to pop it loose with a Blitzer. And who is he going to Hand-Off or Pass the ball to that might be able to score before your Defensive Turn is over?

If the Ball is Picked Up and Safely KEPT or MOVED into the hands of your Fastest Player who doesn't need a Team Reroll to Dodge (or to move 8 squares without any GFI rolls) do you really NEED as may Rerolls per half?

And that Thrower is NOT going to be so hard to Skill IF he has a Catcher to throw to on Turn 8 when you are sure that you can't score or during the game when a Quick Pass (or Longer) is the right thing to do in the situation you are in at the time. Sometimes he is going to carry in the ball for the TD as well.


As for your Halflings... I really like your thought process and I don't say don't do it. Maybe it is a good approach based on the New Rules. And it is a worthy experiment at least.
I hope you will come back after 15 games and give us a chronicle of how things went.

But I don't think having 3 Flings is such a good idea. Who goes on the LOS after 1 Lineman sits in the KO Box ak game? A Blitzer? The Thrower? Those Linemen have a role to play that requires a bit of depth in numbers.

More than 1 Fling on the pitch could mean the whole team is in trouble, quick. You can only protect so many players with so many players. And if you are playing against Orcs or Chaos or Khemri... you can't do much to keep those FLings on the Pitch for long.

Roster wise you are really relying a lot on LUCK to keep the team intact. Not just from game to game but WITHIN each game. Luck is not a plan.

But it could all work out. So... why not?
I have done crazier things to start a team. Others have done crazier things. And sometimes those crazy things WORK and when they don't you learn something.

So please come back and tell us all how this worked out for you.
Catalyst32



Joined: Jul 14, 2008

Post   Posted: Oct 20, 2021 - 14:52 Reply with quote Back to top

Mingoose wrote:
I think the catcher will be the most important guy on the field for a human team. The ability to rapidly acquire DP/SG is a game changer. You could realistically get a catcher up to that after game 3, and enjoy the most powerful skill combo on a MA 8 piece with dodge for 12 games.


Great Point.

You can have 4 Catchers. So you can build them in a few different ways. 1 as the Ultimate Scorer, 1 as the Ultimate Fouler, etc etc etc

A few Coaches have built their teams with ALL 4 Catchers. Play them like a Skaven Team with better AV.

And truthfully... as long as you are using using the players with the Reroll Skills for what the have the skills for AG3 with a built in Reroll is better than AG4 without the Reroll.
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