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Poll
Is Iron Hard Skin a valid random mutation for an UW goblin?
No
71%
 71%  [ 32 ]
Yes
28%
 28%  [ 13 ]
Total Votes : 45


tuixec



Joined: Nov 08, 2014

Post   Posted: Dec 15, 2021 - 09:20 Reply with quote Back to top

Hello, I am wondering if Iron Hard Skin is a valid random mutation for an underworld goblin.

The against point is that an 8 armor roll already breaks the armor, and thus it is a useless skill.

The in favor point is that one can always increase the goblin's armor via SPP to give the skill some use. To be honest, I do not know anyone that would do so, but it is certainly an option.
maznaz



Joined: Jan 26, 2004

Post   Posted: Dec 15, 2021 - 11:07 Reply with quote Back to top

I had a debate about this on discord, and it's undecided. Right now random skills doesn't preclude you getting invalid skills anyway, but when it's implemented to do so, this could maybe go either way. My thoughts are that it's clearly invalid, but some people seem to think that the future possibility of taking +AV should make it valid.
Alien_the_Alien



Joined: Apr 22, 2020

Post   Posted: Dec 15, 2021 - 14:40 Reply with quote Back to top

I think that if we go RAW, it wouldn't be a valid mutation by default, but would become one after you take +AV on a gobbo.
Jayward



Joined: Dec 22, 2020

Post   Posted: Dec 15, 2021 - 14:52 Reply with quote Back to top

Feels like a valid skill to me; conditions exist where it could be used. It shouldn't matter that it isn't generally useful.

Compare that to the Catch + No Hands, where you can never use Catch under any circumstances.
maznaz



Joined: Jan 26, 2004

Post   Posted: Dec 15, 2021 - 15:18 Reply with quote Back to top

I think it depends whether the rules are meant to catch people out and prevent fun or to aid i the enjoyment of the game. If it's the latter, I think it's clear that people rolling a random skill wouldn't want to get one that does literally nothing when rolled.
JackassRampant



Joined: Feb 26, 2011

Post   Posted: Dec 15, 2021 - 18:19 Reply with quote Back to top

I think it's another one that should be exempted on players with AV 8+ or worse.

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Garion26



Joined: Nov 28, 2021

Post   Posted: Dec 15, 2021 - 18:30 Reply with quote Back to top

maznaz wrote:
Right now random skills doesn't preclude you getting invalid skills anyway, .


Are you sure?

I've been doing random skills on two different Khorne blood spawn and all four times I rolled invalid skills were grayed out (grab, mighty blow, strong arm if I recall correctly) looks like it's implemented to some degree.
sebco



Joined: Feb 14, 2005

Post   Posted: Dec 15, 2021 - 19:12 Reply with quote Back to top

In this thread https://fumbbl.com/index.php?name=PNphpBB2&file=viewtopic&t=31974&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=15 there are already some solid arguments saying skills that players could potentially use in the future are not "skills they can actually use" (FAQ words)

This should mean that Iron Hard Skin isn't a valid random mutation for an UW goblin (or any other player) with an AV 8+ or worse.

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C0ddlefish



Joined: Sep 17, 2019

Post   Posted: Dec 15, 2021 - 19:18 Reply with quote Back to top

Yep, those example above are all explicitly mentioned as incompatible with other skills or duplicates on a Bloodspawn so are programmed in.

Java has collated a list of others that should be implimented
https://fumbbl.com/p/bugs?id/718
Gengis



Joined: Mar 20, 2020

Post   Posted: Dec 16, 2021 - 10:11 Reply with quote Back to top

Clearly valid for me is also useless, like a lot of other random skills in others teams. For example Shadowing for a dwarf, multiple block for a snotling, leap for a mummy...

If something like this is happening in my team...i just fire the absurd skilled player, like the iron skinned goblin. Is only 40.000gc....don't deserve any tear for it. Is the inherent risk for taking a random skill. Smile
tuixec



Joined: Nov 08, 2014

Post   Posted: Dec 16, 2021 - 10:46 Reply with quote Back to top

Gengis wrote:
Clearly valid for me is also useless, like a lot of other random skills in others teams. For example Shadowing for a dwarf, multiple block for a snotling, leap for a mummy...

If something like this is happening in my team...i just fire the absurd skilled player, like the iron skinned goblin. Is only 40.000gc....don't deserve any tear for it. Is the inherent risk for taking a random skill. Smile

Firing the goblin is what I did, (he had that and tentacles, LOL).
Nevertheless, Hard Iron Skin is a further level of non-usefulness than the ones you mentioned or tentacles. You cannot roll a 6 or devote all your players to assist the snotling, to make it super-marginal use of it.
And still not at the level of big hand + no-hands. I see 3 levels of non-usefulness, and the 2nd is the one generating me doubts. But if there is a dedicated thread to this, then this one is irrelevant.


Last edited by tuixec on Dec 16, 2021 - 10:54; edited 1 time in total
tuixec



Joined: Nov 08, 2014

Post   Posted: Dec 16, 2021 - 10:50 Reply with quote Back to top

sebco wrote:
In this thread https://fumbbl.com/index.php?name=PNphpBB2&file=viewtopic&t=31974&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=15 there are already some solid arguments saying skills that players could potentially use in the future are not "skills they can actually use" (FAQ words).

Nice thread, I will mark it for future reference, but I doubt I catch something not in that thread
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