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Wynters_Dad



Joined: Oct 22, 2021

Post   Posted: Nov 29, 2022 - 01:26 Reply with quote Back to top

Ive been playing quite a bit of Renegades recently both a league season and 3 tournaents. They can be both fun and frustrating.

What I am struggling with is using my size advantage. Im used to playing elves previously and now I have St5 pieces i still always feel under strength.

Whats the best way to use them on the LOS in defence and prevent them and other players getting smacked about?
Carthage



Joined: Mar 18, 2021

Post   Posted: Nov 29, 2022 - 01:41 Reply with quote Back to top

Troll can go on the line, but im of the opinion the ogre usually shouldnt and the "blitzing" one definitely shouldnt. You want him free for blitzing.
JackassRampant



Joined: Feb 26, 2011

Post   Posted: Nov 29, 2022 - 01:47 Reply with quote Back to top

Jumbo players on the line are usually a disappointment, except vs. all-ST3 squads with no Guard. Troll is the exception because he's cheap and tough, but even then it's kind of a wash. I know it looks like Strength is your strength, but after negatraits you're not as strong as Orcs or Undead, and the bigs are your only source of primary S skill access.

It's true on offense too: you want your opening blocks to be negatrait-free, though if you block diagonally and push laterally you can open up some 3d secondary hits with bigs, that's not so bad. Also having the bigs means nobody else will play a big line against you (except Stunties, who often have little choice).

In general, for most teams, loner bigs don't help you bash very much. They hit hard, but they're unreliable and likely to turn you over, or even just cost you zones, which is also very bad for a bash strategy. If you wanna shed blood, go for teams with lots of GS-access players, like Chaos, Orcs, or even Humans. Undead and Tomb Kings are okay too because their strong guys aren't loners and don't have any negatraits that can cost actions. (Yes, a Mummy's crappy MA is like a negatrait, and Decay is a negatrait, but neither gets in your way when throwing a block.)

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amazingprizzini



Joined: Dec 08, 2009

Post   Posted: Nov 29, 2022 - 04:41 Reply with quote Back to top

renegades big boys can be fun, but the ogre and troll are best used as supporting pieces to your other, more reliable players. 2 strength 5 monsters with guard your renegades do their blocking better.

It's harder to make a killer renegade without S access, so you have to build your team around M access and the weird combination of players. But if you bring 3 big guys and try to always block with them, prepare to be disappointed.
Catalyst32



Joined: Jul 14, 2008

Post   Posted: Mar 21, 2023 - 06:03 Reply with quote Back to top

Defensive LOS is
Troll Orc Ogre in a bunch OR with 1 space between them
Troll and Ogre are your Guard Caddies more than anything
Not moving them is the key... but of course you DO have to move them sometimes
So be sure you are moving them to exactly where you need them to go.

Remember the Troll needs a Babysitter IF you are going to use him at all times
But if you just want him to stand there Troll is great at that
If you think og the Troll and Ogre more as SUPPORT rather than STAR you will get the most mileage out of them early
If using them is not ESSENTIAL and they have their TZ's leave them alone

Hit with them LAST always, unless you MUST have them Hit early
Move them FIRST when you MUST move them and LAST when it is a good idea but not a great idea to move them.

On the other hand your MINO should not be on the LOS
I like putting them to 1 side or the other because your opponent will most often go to the opposite side. Troll Side is probably best. Then your MINO and a Buddy with ST3 can go on a rampage ripping the stuffing out of your opponents flank. They WILL knock someone out of the game AND it will keep the MINO away from a GANG FOUL.
It sounds wrong. But once the MINO and friend remove 2 players with a Surf or a CAS they have given you a nice advantage. AND your opponent will NOT want to reverse the ball to his side... because he will also have to drive back up through your Ogre and Troll to do so.

You have experience with Elves... so you know their ON SQUARE BACK strategy
It is harder to do with Renegades, you have to do it more with BLOCKING than with Dodging.
But you do something like that to delay your opponent will you set up an attempt to SACK the Ball Carrier.

If your Mino FIRES and your Troll and Ogre give you anything your Renegades WILL HOLD and your Elf and Goblin will find their way in for the SACK and STEAL
Build your Elf to SACK and the Goblin to RETRIEVE.
Build your Renegades to be RELIABLE as much as possible.
PurpleChest



Joined: Oct 25, 2003

Post   Posted: Mar 21, 2023 - 11:03
FUMBBL Staff
Reply with quote Back to top

Catalyst32 wrote:
Defensive LOS is
Troll Orc Ogre in a bunch OR with 1 space between them
Troll and Ogre are your Guard Caddies more than anything
Not moving them is the key... but of course you DO have to move them sometimes
So be sure you are moving them to exactly where you need them to go.

Remember the Troll needs a Babysitter IF you are going to use him at all times
But if you just want him to stand there Troll is great at that
If you think og the Troll and Ogre more as SUPPORT rather than STAR you will get the most mileage out of them early
If using them is not ESSENTIAL and they have their TZ's leave them alone

Hit with them LAST always, unless you MUST have them Hit early
Move them FIRST when you MUST move them and LAST when it is a good idea but not a great idea to move them.
This is all great.
Quote:

On the other hand your MINO should not be on the LOS
I like putting them to 1 side or the other because your opponent will most often go to the opposite side. Troll Side is probably best. Then your MINO and a Buddy with ST3 can go on a rampage ripping the stuffing out of your opponents flank. They WILL knock someone out of the game AND it will keep the MINO away from a GANG FOUL.
It sounds wrong. But once the MINO and friend remove 2 players with a Surf or a CAS they have given you a nice advantage. AND your opponent will NOT want to reverse the ball to his side... because he will also have to drive back up through your Ogre and Troll to do so.

well your Mino should be a Roger, on offence the Orc is his mate, but defence Orc's av9 should be on LOS keeping troll company. But yes dominating one side , or both with Rogers MA, and careful positioning, is great, but either frenzy piece is easy to trap into contact they cant flee from after the blitz so be prepared to follow up, and try not to overcommit unless the central Big Guys are being good and holding firm to prevent that swap across
Quote:

You have experience with Elves... so you know their ON SQUARE BACK strategy
It is harder to do with Renegades, you have to do it more with BLOCKING than with Dodging.
But you do something like that to delay your opponent will you set up an attempt to SACK the Ball Carrier.

If your Mino FIRES and your Troll and Ogre give you anything your Renegades WILL HOLD and your Elf and Goblin will find their way in for the SACK and STEAL
Build your Elf to SACK and the Goblin to RETRIEVE.
Build your Renegades to be RELIABLE as much as possible.
Again, absolutely spot on.

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Burtblahblahblah



Joined: Aug 18, 2003

Post   Posted: Mar 21, 2023 - 19:15 Reply with quote Back to top

I quite often put the troll on the line because of AV10+ and regen. The ogre is usually available to be blitzed; I don't cover him unless there's a particularly menacing piece around (e.g. Bloodspawn) or I'm going to need his skills (usually guard). The rogre is fully covered as he is by far the most important of your big guys.

Sometimes I put the ogre one square behind the LoS to deter follow ups. It doesn't really work against good players as they will block up/ down the line, but it can help you recover your LoS against coaches who are less experienced.

Personally, I build my elf as a carrier rather than a sacker. Renegades don't have a lot of potential options for sacking. It relies on careful positioning to create pressure and then blitzing a corner off a cage with the rogre. The prehensile tail can cause problems that can hopefully cause a 1 in 9 failure or, at the least, force the coach into suboptimal repositioning. If I'm going to do this move, I'll activate one of the other big guys first to increase pressure. If they fail then I'll reconsider. A lone rogre can be vulnerable.
Ohwatch



Joined: Sep 14, 2014

Post   Posted: Mar 21, 2023 - 19:34 Reply with quote Back to top

Lineman on LOS defense. (not cheap, trash often).

Else ST4 or ST5 if no blitzer in front of.
With block, guard and defensive.
ph0enyx13



Joined: Nov 14, 2015

Post   Posted: Mar 22, 2023 - 01:52 Reply with quote Back to top

PurpleChest wrote:
well your Mino should be a Roger

why do you prefer the rogre to the mino?
Catalyst32



Joined: Jul 14, 2008

Post   Posted: Mar 22, 2023 - 07:25 Reply with quote Back to top

ph0enyx13 wrote:
PurpleChest wrote:
well your Mino should be a Roger

why do you prefer the rogre to the mino?


Well he says put your ROGER on the Pitch
After checking my English-to-American Dictionary I would NOT recommend you DO THAT. lol

I would ALSO like to know WHY the ROGRE and not the MINO
I haven't played any 2020 yet, so I have never had that option. Which is why I stuck to the tactics that I do know. Using the MINO.

Why the ROgre?
Catalyst32



Joined: Jul 14, 2008

Post   Posted: Mar 22, 2023 - 08:01 Reply with quote Back to top

Ohwatch wrote:
Lineman on LOS defense. (not cheap, trash often).

Else ST4 or ST5 if no blitzer in front of.
With block, guard and defensive.


I would say that SOMETIMES that is an option too.

When doing this I would normally but the BIGS either 1 or 2 squares off the Line
I put the FRENZY GUY Dead Center and the Troll and Ogre 2 squares off Center flanking him on either side.

Then 2 Renegades 2 squares off of the Flanks of the Troll and Ogre on the same line
And 2 Renegades behind those 2 Renegades by 1 square and to their inside shoulder by 1 square

Then I put 2 renegades off of the Inside Shoulder of the Troll and Ogre in the same way BEFORE realizing that is 12 players.
Then I stick 1 guy directly behind the FRENZY GUY
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