FUMBBL :: Online Blood Bowl League

RDaneel

Joined: Feb 24, 2023

Posted: Apr 25, 2023 - 22:53

Sp00keh wrote:

Did GW make the Megastar rules around the same time the Cindy mini was relaunched?
But the rules were out for a while before that?

So they knew it was basically the same as Dribblesnot. But didn't include her in the megastar list

A cynical person might assume they released one OP star, sold a lot of models, then put a leash on the first one and released a second version of the same OP star, assuming that everyone will then go and run out and buy that model. and ideally a new team too

that's the reason maybe why Human, Old World Alliance has been promoted to Tier 1 in BT by Christer and no more Tier 2? (btw also Norse can hire cindy I think...)

Anyway to answer your question I think the last Megastar list update has been published by G&W in January 2023. I think Cindy was published in the Almanac in end of Nov 2022... so just one month before.

it never occurred to me to think that G&W might update the list of megastars according to the models sold--that seems a bit "diatribe" to me. I think it's more likely that they realized that those Starplayers have a "plus" depending on tournament results. Maybe Cindy will be part of Megastars list very soon Wink

JanMattys

Joined: Feb 29, 2004

Posted: Apr 25, 2023 - 23:51

RDaneel wrote:

that's the reason maybe why Human, Old World Alliance has been promoted to Tier 1 in BT by Christer and no more Tier 2? (btw also Norse can hire cindy I think...)

Humans are Tier 1 for the first time in the upcoming NAF World Cup as well.
I ran humans both in Lucca 2015 and Dornbirn 2019 and they were Tier 2.

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BeanBelly

Joined: Nov 14, 2019

Posted: Apr 26, 2023 - 00:47

RDaneel wrote:

(btw also Norse can hire cindy I think...)

Ah but if you are daft like me, I went for â€˜Chosen of..â€™ Norse who can not get Cindy!

Fortunately Iâ€™ve been pretty lucky with the team - specifically the armour has been better than expected - we are unbeaten so far despite facing Bomber a few times.

Good decision by Christer, I like to see Stars play, but some are too influential currently.

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Painting myself into a corner

BeanBelly

Joined: Nov 14, 2019

Posted: Apr 26, 2023 - 00:50

JanMattys wrote:

Humans are Tier 1 for the first time in the upcoming NAF World Cup as well.
I ran humans both in Lucca 2015 and Dornbirn 2019 and they were Tier 2.

Yes itâ€™s a shame really, I like humans but losing the Block Ogre is big. Iâ€™ve just gone for Undead instead for the current FUMBBL NAF competitions.

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Painting myself into a corner

RDaneel

Joined: Feb 24, 2023

Posted: Apr 26, 2023 - 09:58

BeanBelly wrote:

JanMattys wrote:

Humans are Tier 1 for the first time in the upcoming NAF World Cup as well.
I ran humans both in Lucca 2015 and Dornbirn 2019 and they were Tier 2.

Yes itâ€™s a shame really, I like humans but losing the Block Ogre is big. Iâ€™ve just gone for Undead instead for the current FUMBBL NAF competitions.

I am not sure I fully understand how the evolution of the definition of Tiers 1-2-3 changes
In the Fumbbl2020 manual on page 107 it is generically referred to as
"Tier1 is occupied by th strongest and most forgiving Teams, those that can easily recover from mistakes and mishaps...."
It is a rather qualitative description and subject to interpretation in fact many teams that were Tiers1 have been downgraded to Tiers2 and vice versa

It would be interesting to understand the mechanism: whether a Tiers1 team is considered as a function of the win rate.
Looking stats
https://fumbbl.com/p/rosterstats?y=2023&m=1
does not seems Human are so "OP" putting them more or less in the middle - fitting well with the "Tiers2" definition so maybe now the fact to have promoted them Tiers1 has some link with the starplayers...

Certainly the calculation of a win rate should be done in my opinion by taking into account the results of tournaments with random association or the BlackBox.

JanMattys

Joined: Feb 29, 2004

Posted: Apr 26, 2023 - 10:13

BeanBelly wrote:

JanMattys wrote:

Humans are Tier 1 for the first time in the upcoming NAF World Cup as well.
I ran humans both in Lucca 2015 and Dornbirn 2019 and they were Tier 2.

Yes itâ€™s a shame really, I like humans but losing the Block Ogre is big. Iâ€™ve just gone for Undead instead for the current FUMBBL NAF competitions.

I played with the Guard Ogre. I miss the tackle/mb blitzer. Being tier 1 takes away the chance to have two normal skills on a player.

As a result, I too will bring Undead to Alicante.
But it puzzles me why Humans became tier 1. It's not like they were winning left and right. :/

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RDaneel

Joined: Feb 24, 2023

Posted: Apr 26, 2023 - 10:26

JanMattys wrote:

But it puzzles me why Humans became tier 1. It's not like they were winning left and right. :/

I agree
i was surprised too
I played 15 matches with humans (in box) and I did not have the impression they were so â€œeasyâ€

JanMattys

Joined: Feb 29, 2004

Posted: Apr 26, 2023 - 10:40

They were a solid choice as a T2 team. Now as T1 they lose the block ogre, and more importantly (at least in my opinion) the four blitzers either lose tackle (guard x3 and mb), or lose mb (guard x3 and tackle), or lose a guard (guard x2, mb and tackle). Either of these choices hurt them A LOT in a no progression tournament.
The ability to have a tackle/mb let them have four guards (ogre and three blitzers) and a single dedicated killer. Which made for a nice setup that could go toe to toe with bashers.

I guess they gained +1 pass to the thrower and the chance for the one-turn Td with the halfling, but in my opinion the tradeoff is terrible.

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RDaneel

Joined: Feb 24, 2023

Posted: Apr 26, 2023 - 11:20

JanMattys wrote:

Now as T1 they lose the block ogre, and more importantly (at least in my opinion) the four blitzers either lose tackle (guard x3 and mb), or lose mb (guard x3 and tackle), or lose a guard (guard x2, mb and tackle).[...]

I guess they gained +1 pass to the thrower and the chance for the one-turn Td with the halfling, but in my opinion the tradeoff is terrible.

Now seems I have really lost something in the updated ruleset...
where is indicated that Tiers# is linked to gain/lose some ability or skills or have a reduced set of starplayers to chose? I missed this point sorry

Rawlf

Joined: Jul 15, 2007

Posted: Apr 26, 2023 - 11:24

I cannot say what reasons are for the NAF's decision, but for the BBT, Christer makes up the tiers list not only based on win rates.

Christer on discord wrote:

What I consider is:
- Win rates from current roster
- Popularity (how many teams/games were played for each roster)
- Quite simply a meta shift to keep it from being "the same"

Think of the tiering list for BBT more like the rules for that particular metagame rather than The Truth.

JanMattys

Joined: Feb 29, 2004

Posted: Apr 26, 2023 - 11:40

RDaneel wrote:

JanMattys wrote:

Now as T1 they lose the block ogre, and more importantly (at least in my opinion) the four blitzers either lose tackle (guard x3 and mb), or lose mb (guard x3 and tackle), or lose a guard (guard x2, mb and tackle).[...]

I guess they gained +1 pass to the thrower and the chance for the one-turn Td with the halfling, but in my opinion the tradeoff is terrible.

Now seems I have really lost something in the updated ruleset...
where is indicated that Tiers# is linked to gain/lose some ability or skills or have a reduced set of starplayers to chose? I missed this point sorry

I am talking about NAF events, not on Fumbbl. In NAF events teams are divided into Tiers. Tier 1 teams have access to (say) 6 primary skills. Tier 2 teams have access to (say) 6 primary skills and 1 secondary. And so on.

The rule I was referring to is that you can give two primaries to a single player at the cost of a primary and a secondary.

Humans were tier 2, now they are tier 1 for the upcoming World cup. Which means that, having no access to the secondary skill, they can't build a tackle/mb blitzer any more because they can only have 1 skill on each player.

This is the World Cup ruleset if you are interested.

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RDaneel

Joined: Feb 24, 2023

Posted: Apr 26, 2023 - 12:21

JanMattys wrote:

RDaneel wrote:

JanMattys wrote:

Now as T1 they lose the block ogre, and more importantly (at least in my opinion) the four blitzers either lose tackle (guard x3 and mb), or lose mb (guard x3 and tackle), or lose a guard (guard x2, mb and tackle).[...]

I guess they gained +1 pass to the thrower and the chance for the one-turn Td with the halfling, but in my opinion the tradeoff is terrible.

Now seems I have really lost something in the updated ruleset...
where is indicated that Tiers# is linked to gain/lose some ability or skills or have a reduced set of starplayers to chose? I missed this point sorry

I am talking about NAF events, not on Fumbbl. In NAF events teams are divided into Tiers. Tier 1 teams have access to (say) 6 primary skills. Tier 2 teams have access to (say) 6 primary skills and 1 secondary. And so on.

The rule I was referring to is that you can give two primaries to a single player at the cost of a primary and a secondary.

Humans were tier 2, now they are tier 1 for the upcoming World cup. Which means that, having no access to the secondary skill, they can't build a tackle/mb blitzer any more because they can only have 1 skill on each player.

This is the World Cup ruleset if you are interested.

ahhh ... got it! thx!