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bghandras



Joined: Feb 06, 2011

Post   Posted: Jan 08, 2019 - 09:57 Reply with quote Back to top

In spired by this:
'ramchop wrote:
This is such a negative thread. "Why isn't FUMBBL growing?" - negative in title and content.

"How can we grow FUMBBL?"
In my corner of the world one of our most experienced TT coaches (#3 NAF ranked Chaos coach, #9 ranked Slann) played his first game of FUMBBL last night. Attracted here by a NZ based Secret League starting soon. He's been around the TT world for ages, not too computer literate, but seems to have enjoyed his first foray into this space. I expect there are other coaches like him who just need to take that first step.

And then there are coaches new to Blood Bowl. A big increase in their numbers thanks to the renewed attention of GW. A percentage of them might sniff around here with encouragement. A percentage of them might get hooked.

How to grow FUMBBL? Be part of making it an even better place. And there are many ways of doing this. Playing nice is a good start.'

I suggest to concentrate on opportunities AHEAD of us! I believe the biggest opportunity lies at LEAGUE division. Custom roster management and the new group level team management features are purely awesome!

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Burnalot



Joined: Aug 02, 2003

Post   Posted: Jan 08, 2019 - 12:23 Reply with quote Back to top

I think this has been discussed before under several other topics.
Generally the main points as far as I can remember were these:

1. Spread the word, so people find their way here.
2. Have an easy entry for newcomers, where basics of the site are explained.
3. Have a welcoming attitude from older coaches.
4. The need for premade teams.

As it is now I see new coaches trickle in, but then they probably get just lost or are put off by the attitude of some coaches.

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Mattius



Joined: Sep 03, 2006

Post   Posted: Jan 08, 2019 - 13:43 Reply with quote Back to top

A very quick win would be for all the tournaments being advertised regularly on Reddit and Facebook.

If they were posted on every major bloodbowl forum/group then we'd gain a lot of new members and returning members. Leagues can use same tactic.

But, the issue is who would do this. Many companies actually hire people who's job it is to do these announcements. It does take time and some planning.

Perhaps a new admin role as media officer? Could even be a team of people who are responsible for sharing announcements in their region.

If more agree with me and are passionate about it, perhaps we can chat and make a proposal to Christer? In my head I know how to do it, but it's a question of time and dedication.
JellyBelly



Joined: Jul 08, 2009

Post   Posted: Jan 08, 2019 - 13:45 Reply with quote Back to top

Quote:
This is such a negative thread. "Why isn't FUMBBL growing?" - negative in title and content.


Personally, I think it's a shame that honest feedback is regarded as 'negative', as opposed to 'constructive'. Imo, there is a lot of straight dope in that other thread, which should be viewed as valuable feedback, not sidelined as being 'whiny' or 'negative'. Imo, ramchop's post and this thread in themselves highlight part of the problem.

If Fumbbl wants to grow, then it needs to do a better job of listening to the community and being more receptive to user suggestions and feedback. I mean, what is actively being done right now to gauge what the userbase wants and where the main pain points are?

Before the site can grow, we need a more structured way to understand this, which is why I suggested in the other thread that we could have a page similar to the bug tracking page, but for site improvement or change suggestions. Freeform forum discussions like this don't really cut it - they will always lean towards satisfying the loudest voices, rather than focusing on the actual needs of the community.

Also, I think Desultory deserves a certain amount of credit for speaking his mind. Yes, his delivery may have come across as a bit rude and his request to have the donation refunded was mean. But, I can imagine a lot of people would have just left without saying anything, with no-one being any the wiser about why they stopped playing.

At least he's said something. His feedback is valuable and shouldn't be fobbed off as 'negative' or 'entitled'. The site isn't going to grow by ignoring that sort of feedback.

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"Go for the eyes, Boo! Go for the eyes!!" Razz


Last edited by JellyBelly on Jan 08, 2019 - 22:45; edited 1 time in total
Cloggy



Joined: Sep 23, 2004

Post   Posted: Jan 08, 2019 - 14:05 Reply with quote Back to top

Well, the reasons why the site isn't growing go in the other thread. The suggestions on how it CAN grow go in here. It seems quite a straightforward distinction Wink

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JellyBelly



Joined: Jul 08, 2009

Post   Posted: Jan 08, 2019 - 14:13 Reply with quote Back to top

Cloggy wrote:
Well, the reasons why the site isn't growing go in the other thread. The suggestions on how it CAN grow go in here. It seems quite a straightforward distinction Wink


To summarize my post:

How the site can grow: take constructive feedback more seriously and implement a more structured way to gauge what the userbase wants to see and where the main pain points are. Wink

_________________
"Opinions are like arseholes, everybody's got them and they all stink." - The protagonist, Fallout 2

"Go for the eyes, Boo! Go for the eyes!!" Razz
Throweck



Joined: Feb 23, 2013

Post   Posted: Jan 08, 2019 - 14:16
FUMBBL Staff
Reply with quote Back to top

JellyBelly wrote:
Quote:
This is such a negative thread. "Why isn't FUMBBL growing?" - negative in title and content.


Personally, I think it's a shame that honest feedback is regarded as 'negative', as opposed to 'constructive'. Imo, there is a lot of straight dope in that other thread, which should be viewed as valuable feedback, not sidelined as being 'whiny' or 'negative'. Imo, ramchop's post and this thread in themselves highlight part of the problem.

If Fumbbl wants to grow, then it needs to do a better job of listening to the community and being more receptive to user suggestions and feedback. I mean, what is actively being done right now to gauge what the userbase wants and where the main pain points are?

Before the site can grow, we need a more structured way to understand this, which is why I suggested in the other thread that we could have a page similar to the bug tracking page, but for site improvement or change suggestions. Freeform forum discussions like this don't really cut it - they will always lean towards satisfying the loudest voices, rather than focusing on the actual needs of the community.

Also, I think Desultory deserves a certain amount of respect for speaking his mind. Yes, his delivery may have come across as a bit rude and his request to have the donation refunded was mean. But, I can imagine a lot of people would have just left without saying anything, with no-one being any the wiser about why they stopped playing.

At least he's said something. His feedback is valuable and shouldn't be fobbed off as 'negative' or 'entitled'. The site isn't going to grow by ignoring that sort of feedback.


Don't think anyone was 'fobbing' him off. Again, someone has surface facts and not the whole conversation between them (Well, we do now with Christer's post on the other thread). Was it negative? In my eyes, yes. Was it whiney? Yes.

All my opinion of course and they are like arseholes yada yada yada.

You hit the nail on the head with it being 'rude'. I tend not to spend my time on people who are rude in the way they conduct themselves. Christer also mentioned this in the other thread.

I think there is a valid point. I'm not arguing against it. I am saying there is a way to put this forward without taking pms to a public forum, putting the WHOLE story forward and generally making time for a discussion without throwing your toys out of the pram because something didn't go your way or you disagree with an admin. Hence, why I believe some of which is 'entitled'

We can discuss this until the end of time. But this thread is about positive stuff, so let's keep it that way. Very Happy

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JellyBelly



Joined: Jul 08, 2009

Post   Posted: Jan 08, 2019 - 14:31 Reply with quote Back to top

Throweck wrote:
We can discuss this until the end of time. But this thread is about positive stuff, so let's keep it that way.


Agreed Smile

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"Opinions are like arseholes, everybody's got them and they all stink." - The protagonist, Fallout 2

"Go for the eyes, Boo! Go for the eyes!!" Razz
JackassRampant



Joined: Feb 26, 2011

Post   Posted: Jan 08, 2019 - 14:59 Reply with quote Back to top

My "mentor" program (not to mention my summer fundraiser) got derailed by my mental health issues, but I'm going to rebuild it in such a way that it will endure without me running it. This may involve a volunteer (or two or three) to take it over. I'll dig back into it pretty quick here: since I got my basic FUMBBL functionality back I've been messing around with league issues. I am by no means out of the woods, however, and I'm starting to think that delegating should be Job One for me on this front.

Arcayn and I are putting together the FUMBBL League Community of the Americas. We haven't really kicked off too forcefully yet: again, I'm still having problems, and the NBFL playoffs and draft have been priority 1 for me for the last two weeks. (I'm rebuilding the NBFL draft in a sustainable way so that if I have to hand the keys over, the new draft commish just needs to know how the whole thing works and can let it run as-is). The goal of the FLCA is to advance the Americas-time (GMT-2 to GMT-11, mostly GMT-4 to GMT-8) league community and form a coherent pool of coaches so we can fit coaches with leagues and provide a healthy environment to leaven newcomers with old-timers.

I've been cross-posting to the Blood Bowl Community on Facebook. I've also been talking about my friends' exploits there, but I've deliberately come short of advertising for FUMBBL. I do plug FUMBBL any time someone complains about some other format....

What are some other concrete things that can be done?

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What is Nuffle's tree? Risk its trunk, space the branches. Touchdowns are its fruit.
What is Nuffle's lawn? Inches, squares, and Tackle Zones; reddened blades of grass.
Jip



Joined: Apr 25, 2016

Post   Posted: Jan 08, 2019 - 15:11 Reply with quote Back to top

Mattius wrote:
A very quick win would be for all the tournaments being advertised regularly on Reddit and Facebook.

I agree. I'm on the two main Facebook groups (as well as several local tabletop league groups), and run @SAWBBL on twitter, too. FUMBBL gets mentioned VERY rarely, if at all, on either of those platforms. Tabletop and BB2 gets a reasonable amount of noise on there, but FUMBBL just seems to be hushed, for some reason.

Thinking about it, the only FUMBBL recruitment or publicising I've seen on Facebook for leagues has been myself, touting for the SAWBBL League a couple of times, and the Human 4x4 League, on MonkeyMan576's behalf.

There's also not much mention of FUMBBL on TalkFantasyFootball, either, thinking about it...

Don't use reddit, discord, bebo, tinder, MySpace etc., so can't comment on that side of things.

Mattius wrote:
But, the issue is who would do this. Many companies actually hire people who's job it is to do these announcements.

I think that is an option but, for me, unnecessary.

My take on it is that responsibility for promotion of a league and/or tournament comes from the organiser/s primarily, and its members, secondly.

A sustained PR recruitment drive for FUMBBL as a whole might be something which needs making more formal (the NAF have a Media Officer, for example), but it's not much of an exertion to copy and paste info onto a few Facebook pages or a twitter account, for the sake of Leagues and Tournaments.

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bghandras



Joined: Feb 06, 2011

Post   Posted: Jan 08, 2019 - 15:20 Reply with quote Back to top

My suggestion would be, once custom league options are settled, then have a relook at them. Lets see how to make them as easy to use as possible. (Like Stupid Simple.)
I believe fumbbl has a great opportunity to attract local groups around the world who play their own leagues through the site. They just dont know such tool exists, and even if they do, they cant figure out alone how it works. Sure, the community is helpful and explains how it works, but one needs to break some barriers to interact with the community. The ideal for growth would be if no community troubleshooting is needed to find and master custom league options.

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'Best thing on FUMBBL'(Seventyone),
'AWESOME'(Kummo), 'Last league i would leave'(SpecialOne), 'Far far the BEST thing i played online'(Grunth)
JackassRampant



Joined: Feb 26, 2011

Post   Posted: Jan 08, 2019 - 15:32 Reply with quote Back to top

Jip wrote:
There's also not much mention of FUMBBL on TalkFantasyFootball, either, thinking about it...
Man, this hurts. TFF is dead, and I'm the one who killed it. Sad If y'all wanna help resurrect it, come join me there: I check in every couple days and participate a bit still.

_________________
What is Nuffle's tree? Risk its trunk, space the branches. Touchdowns are its fruit.
What is Nuffle's lawn? Inches, squares, and Tackle Zones; reddened blades of grass.
koadah



Joined: Mar 30, 2005

Post   Posted: Jan 08, 2019 - 15:53 Reply with quote Back to top

I think that admins could do with being careful how they respond (even when they are completely in the right). Fumbbl doesn't have the greatest reputation on some forums. I suspect that some coaches avoid it because of that and some may be a bit defensive.

It only takes one person to say "I went over there and they
were total arses" to put a lot of people off.

You have to be a bit careful on other media. Some people seem to think that anything one Fumbbler says is said on behalf of all Fumbblers, even when Fumbbl was never mentioned.

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koadah



Joined: Mar 30, 2005

Post   Posted: Jan 08, 2019 - 15:55 Reply with quote Back to top

JackassRampant wrote:
Jip wrote:
There's also not much mention of FUMBBL on TalkFantasyFootball, either, thinking about it...
Man, this hurts. TFF is dead, and I'm the one who killed it. Sad If y'all wanna help resurrect it, come join me there: I check in every couple days and participate a bit still.


Even some of the oldest of fogeys are moving to this social media malarkey.

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[SL] Rumble - 16 brand new teams - 100+ Races - Always recruiting
JackassRampant



Joined: Feb 26, 2011

Post   Posted: Jan 08, 2019 - 16:20 Reply with quote Back to top

Digger Goreman is on Facebook now! It's only a matter of time before he joins us here.

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What is Nuffle's tree? Risk its trunk, space the branches. Touchdowns are its fruit.
What is Nuffle's lawn? Inches, squares, and Tackle Zones; reddened blades of grass.
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