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Verminardo



Joined: Sep 27, 2006

Post   Posted: Sep 23, 2019 - 19:00 Reply with quote Back to top

I completely agree with Rawlf but fair enough.
Nelphine



Joined: Apr 01, 2011

Post   Posted: Sep 23, 2019 - 20:23 Reply with quote Back to top

TLDR: I want points per game to be high enough that if I play an entire squads worth of games more than someone, this has a noticeable effect on my score and lets me beat them, even if I don't win any of that squads games.

So my thought is: if you are already going to play all your games, you need no points per game.

If you are going to play the same number of games, regardless of points, you need no points per game.

If you are in competition with someone and you are winning, you need no points per game.

If you are in competition with someone and you are losing, and they have/will play all their games, you need no points per game.

However, if you are in competition with someone, and you are losing, and they are not going to play all of their games, then, IF the bonus is high enough, you may play more games because you losing enough games will get you more points than they get since they aren't playing all their games.

For me, I'd want that bonus to mean that if someone is beating me, by a number of wins equal to 1/5 of one teams total games (so if they had 6 more wins than me in season 2), and they simply do not play their last team at all on their squad (so they don't play 1/5 of their games), then I should 'beat' them if I complete all of my games, even if I lose all the games on my last team.

That's where my thought is. Numbers can be tweaked as necessary.

For season 2 this would mean that in 30 losses, I should get enough points to overcome 6 wins. In season 2 I already got 3 points for playing those 30 games, so those 30 losses needed to provide me more than an additional 3 points. (Maybe not as high as 4 points, but more than 3.)
Rawlf



Joined: Jul 15, 2007

Post   Posted: Sep 23, 2019 - 20:59 Reply with quote Back to top

Nelphine, please dont say "For me, I'd want...", because you will never be in that situation. You lost 6 matches of the last 30 you played. Smile
And a coach that was in the unlikely situation you describe just wouldnt care about the points.
Thats my point; the issue is purely academical.
Nelphine



Joined: Apr 01, 2011

Post   Posted: Sep 23, 2019 - 21:21 Reply with quote Back to top

Which is what I told Christer when we discussed my proposal.

But I'm also saying it to back up my agreement with your proposal to simply remove points per game entirely - if those points per game don't do what I described (they don't) then a simpler scoring system as you propose is a good one.
Malmir



Joined: May 20, 2008

Post   Posted: Sep 23, 2019 - 23:18 Reply with quote Back to top

"I think everyone's right, except me, so just forget I spoke."

https://fumbbl.com/p/team?team_id=940028
Mattius



Joined: Sep 03, 2006

Post   Posted: Sep 24, 2019 - 19:21 Reply with quote Back to top

From my side I'm 100% with Christers proposal. Only idea I do have on the technical side is to see if each player could have 1 experienced team that costs double (or triple for chaos/nurgle/CHD). It would add a little spice and give players who are very attached to their teams (that's a lot people) to have an angle to enter.

Out side of this, something on the home page or on the create team page about bbt would be cool. For example when someone makes a new team, the option comes up 'would you like this team to participate in the bbt?' it would likely help a lot with getting more people involved.
happygrue



Joined: Oct 15, 2010

Post   Posted: Sep 24, 2019 - 22:55 Reply with quote Back to top

I'd like to chime in as a participant in season 1 who expected and hoped to compete in season 2 but never found the time (I moved this year, some other factors - I just kept putting off making a squad).

I hope to come back for season 3 so I do have some interest in the rules.

First, I think reducing the number of games to 100 would help folks in situations like mine - though I also really liked the longer slog with more games too. Managing the team over that long time period (40 games in season 1) was a delightful challenge and I think we do lose something in going down to 30 and then to 25. But the gains in more people able to participate are also important, so I understand the reasoning.

One thing to think about: what about tracking the teams all the way to 40 or 50 games and declaring a "grand master" award for the top score of any entered team that gets the best score in 50 games? Basically: the challenge as normal, but if people keep playing some or all of their teams all the way to 50, they could get a little "best of" bonus title among all the various challenge competitors. Maybe that would turn out to be nothing or not popular, but it also might be interesting to find out?

In a different direction - I'm not a fan of the participation points per game. I don't see how it ultimately changes the math at all other than if it can alter the behavior of some people who would literally not play the next game but for those participation points... and I have strong doubts that the number of such folks is very many people. But I could be wrong. So in short: I don't understand why it would matter to someone to have it in there, but I suppose it's not doing much harm overall, other than making the scores harder for the rest of us to compare - so meh.

Moving on: I agree with those who have spoken in favor of altering the selection system to favor the least played races over the rest. IMO, this is less about forcing people to use crap and more about just generally promoting the health of the box by having a really nice mix of teams entering so that you could get lots of different sorts of draws. I realize that there is some overlap, but I would push toward diversity of teams over "complete fairness" regarding which teams are best.

To that end, I would suggest some bonus points for finishing sprints with the least played races. Not a huge number, but enough to make an interesting meta where if a bunch of people all go in one similar direction with a lot of the same races there will also be an incentive to directly counter that meta and try to sprint with races that are just not seeing any use. The goal would just be to get more of those races into the box. Perhaps a moderate bonus for the least played 4 teams and half that for the next 4 least played (covering the least played 8 races) - to be awarded at the very end after the season has closed so that we can see what happened with second sprints and such.

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juck101



Joined: Nov 16, 2003

Post   Posted: Sep 25, 2019 - 21:11 Reply with quote Back to top

Im a fan of four tiers, amazing, good, below average & terrible (stunty). However the finer points of making the diversity is key to the sucess of the format which does appear counter to my understanding of tiers.

Saying that tiers of; amazing, good, below average and terrible, I think fits 1 from each of my brackets based on points suggested by christer. Which if this was a similar choice by many players then the diversty would be fine and almost meet the criteria of perfect.
Dalfort



Joined: Jun 23, 2008

Post   Posted: Sep 26, 2019 - 00:00 Reply with quote Back to top

Would it be possible to apply the Season Rules (i.e. Rebuild with 1M gc modified by games played/won and Cas/TD as per DZ Season 2 book)and keep the same teams each season? Scores would be reset and maybe have 2 tiers or divisions 1 for continuing teams and the 2nd for new teams.

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Bojoaph



Joined: Jan 12, 2017

Post   Posted: Sep 30, 2019 - 23:33 Reply with quote Back to top

Dalfort wrote:
Would it be possible to apply the Season Rules (i.e. Rebuild with 1M gc modified by games played/won and Cas/TD as per DZ Season 2 book)and keep the same teams each season? Scores would be reset and maybe have 2 tiers or divisions 1 for continuing teams and the 2nd for new teams.


please can we never ever do this
Dalfort



Joined: Jun 23, 2008

Post   Posted: Sep 30, 2019 - 23:47 Reply with quote Back to top

Bojoaph wrote:
Dalfort wrote:
Would it be possible to apply the Season Rules (i.e. Rebuild with 1M gc modified by games played/won and Cas/TD as per DZ Season 2 book)and keep the same teams each season? Scores would be reset and maybe have 2 tiers or divisions 1 for continuing teams and the 2nd for new teams.


please can we never ever do this
Laughing

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Chivite



Joined: Sep 04, 2017

Post   Posted: Oct 01, 2019 - 00:44 Reply with quote Back to top

No redraft option in the end???
MrCushtie



Joined: Aug 10, 2018

Post   Posted: Oct 01, 2019 - 00:54 Reply with quote Back to top

For one glorious moment, at least, I've got the lead in the Trophy.

See you all at the finish line! Smile

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ph0enyx13



Joined: Nov 14, 2015

Post   Posted: Oct 01, 2019 - 04:56 Reply with quote Back to top

So, what race should I make a team for box in to give people who are going for the trophy losses?
Chivite



Joined: Sep 04, 2017

Post   Posted: Oct 01, 2019 - 10:57 Reply with quote Back to top

ph0enyx13 wrote:
So, what race should I make a team for box in to give people who are going for the trophy losses?


I have no idea what that question means
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