FUMBBL :: Online Blood Bowl League

Malmir

Joined: May 20, 2008

Posted: Dec 12, 2020 - 00:33

CAB wrote:

Dutchlife wrote:

Book specifies you can only jump over prone or knocked down players so can't jump through a screen if people are standing. Need strictly leap for that.

You knock down a player beside the player standing behind and now you can jump over the prone player and negate one dodge, sometimes even two dodges depending on how other players are positioned.

In other cases you can gain movement you otherwise would not get as your own players and subsequently opposing players are in the way.

Here's a sporting offer for you. When the new rules get released, let's play a game...on fumbbl. We'll both make a starting team. I'll let you choose the races. Give me any any race you like and take any race you like. I'm just curious to see if you can back up all the constant take on this, that and the rest with some solid bloodbowl. And if you can, I'll be the first to say well done and take your constant posts more seriously. Literally, any combo of teams. You name them, I will play them. I'm not that clear on all the new rules to be honest, so it could well prove very useful to me.

Lasgalen

Joined: Jun 30, 2018

Posted: Dec 12, 2020 - 00:37

I get what you say, powing a player next to a standing one allows you a jump over a prone player.
Looks still niche or still risky. The unlimited rrs *facepalm*

Well this rule is little use for stunties right?

Craftnburn

Joined: Jul 29, 2005

Posted: Dec 12, 2020 - 01:12

All this sounds to me like they eliminated the passing and made Elves play like Slann... SMH

CAB

Joined: Aug 02, 2003

Posted: Dec 12, 2020 - 02:13

Lasgalen wrote:

I get what you say, powing a player next to a standing one allows you a jump over a prone player.
Looks still niche or still risky. The unlimited rrs *facepalm*

Well this rule is little use for stunties right?

No... it favours mainly agility 2+ teams in general... but even agility 3+ teams with the odd agility 2+ players can do some shenanigans a bit easier than before.

Multiple RR in a turn will help in those turn you really need it.

But jumping over player can be useful in other instances that has nothing to do with screens.

Grod

Joined: Sep 30, 2003

Posted: Dec 12, 2020 - 07:00

Dodging is risky in general. Being able to jump lets you create less risky dodge sequences, and at times navigate completely blocked passages. Combine with the new 3+ pro skill is also interesting.

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Felix17

Joined: May 23, 2019

Posted: Dec 12, 2020 - 08:10

If an Elf is jumping into a TZ square, they're doing it on a 3+, with no skill like Dodge to provide a RR, therefore relying on a Team RR. Which will be worth it at some stages of the game, but doing it en-masse all the time doesn't seem viable, because you're going to fail jumps and either get a turnover or burn RRs (or both). Going for a 2+ jump is fine, but again, there's no skill providing a built-in RR like Dodge, so that will eat more RRs than simply running round or dodging in many cases.

I also can't see why tight cages got worse. They're now harder to jump into than they were before, with that -3 modifier (-2 with Leap). I would have thought they'd be even more effective (arguments about picking off the other 6 players notwithstanding)

What am I missing? Elves have gained a useful new tool, but I can't see it having a profound effect yet.

CAB

Joined: Aug 02, 2003

Posted: Dec 12, 2020 - 13:46

Felix17 wrote:

If an Elf is jumping into a TZ square, they're doing it on a 3+, with no skill like Dodge to provide a RR, therefore relying on a Team RR. Which will be worth it at some stages of the game, but doing it en-masse all the time doesn't seem viable, because you're going to fail jumps and either get a turnover or burn RRs (or both). Going for a 2+ jump is fine, but again, there's no skill providing a built-in RR like Dodge, so that will eat more RRs than simply running round or dodging in many cases.

I also can't see why tight cages got worse. They're now harder to jump into than they were before, with that -3 modifier (-2 with Leap). I would have thought they'd be even more effective (arguments about picking off the other 6 players notwithstanding)

What am I missing? Elves have gained a useful new tool, but I can't see it having a profound effect yet.

Together with being able to use multiple RR in a turn it can provide some interesting consideration for those few turns you really need it.

Not all players have dodge either.

Rigolgm

Joined: Sep 14, 2018

Posted: Dec 13, 2020 - 15:29

Jumping is huge now. Possibly even bigger than the 'any number of rerolls in a turn' change.

It'll greatly alter the game and force teams that rely on a strong combat lines to consider spreading out more.

It means Wrestle is now a powerful skill for easily creating jumpable gaps.

It's odd that running through multiple tackle zones is now often made a lot easier just my inserting a prone player into your path, but who am I to question the mighty GW eh. Hell, Wood Elves can even now put Brawler on their Treeman too.

At least Titchy isn't a problem vs it.

Balance wise, I'm in two minds:
- I think it will further increase the emphasis on positional play, a bit like the Thrower changes have. I like this.
- It feels like a painful (for their opponents) buff to elf teams and Gutter Runners etc, who already felt cheesily good.

Last edited by Rigolgm on %b %13, %2020 - %16:%Dec; edited 1 time in total

Garion

Joined: Aug 19, 2009

Posted: Dec 13, 2020 - 16:21

Alot of flannel in this thread...

Jumping is not the end of cages or screens. Its just a tactical consideration. Good solid bb fundamentals will win the day just as it always has.

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Rigolgm

Joined: Sep 14, 2018

Posted: Dec 13, 2020 - 17:03

I've got that blockage occurring regarding the Leap skill rules. It's this paragraph. Does anyone know 100% what it means? It's not in the FAQ:

"Additionally, this player may reduce any negative modifier applied to the Agility test when they attempt to Jump ... to a minimum of -1".

Does it mean that, say, if they had a ton of tackle zones on them AND, say, also a weird Special Play card that gives them -2 to jumping, then actually they'd just be at -1 and another -1 for a total of -2?

CAB

Joined: Aug 02, 2003

Posted: Dec 13, 2020 - 18:17

It simply mean you may reduce the penalties to a minimum of -1. So it you jump or leap into one tackle zone you can't reduce the penalty to zero, you always receive at least a -1 to the dice roll if the jump either start or land in a square marked by an opposing player.

riktikticheck

Joined: Jul 30, 2004

Posted: Dec 14, 2020 - 18:33

It suddenly hit me, that this Jump rule makes wrestle have more value in high ag teams, because you get more friendly and enemy corpses to bounce over.

Kondor

Joined: Apr 04, 2008

Posted: Dec 14, 2020 - 18:45

riktikticheck wrote:

It suddenly hit me, that this Jump rule makes wrestle have more value in high ag teams, because you get more friendly and enemy corpses to bounce over.

The problem with wrestle will always be the same. If you use wrestle in your turn, you just put your own guy on the ground. Sure, another elf can jump over him the guy you bring down but on your opponent's turn your guy is prone without tackle zones and your opponent is free to stand up and run after the ball carrier.

If the question is Block vs Wrestle, 90% of the time I want block on any player.

MattDakka

Joined: Oct 09, 2007

Posted: Dec 14, 2020 - 19:01

If your team, especially an agile one, lacks Tackle, Wrestle is better than Block because it allows to soft-counter opponent Blodge players.

Kondor

Joined: Apr 04, 2008

Posted: Dec 14, 2020 - 19:12

MattDakka wrote:

If your team, especially an agile one, lacks Tackle, Wrestle is better than Block because it allows to soft-counter opponent Blodge players.

That is true Matt. However, on Fumbbl we are going to mostly play much lower TV matches now and with randomized MVP I doubt we will be seeing as many blodgers.

15 games rinse and repeat boredom. However, there will be enough blodging that I think you will still see people save their SPP and choose block and then tackle.