uzkulak
Joined: Mar 30, 2004
|
 Posted:
Nov 05, 2021 - 13:18 |
 
|
Yes, throwers could be the star of the team under the old rules if you built for it. And, honestly, probably could be under the new rules as well.
Probably also worth remembering that 4+ or even 5+ passes aren't that unlikely to succeed with a rr - so it would be wise to still defend properly against that play. Not the best go-to plan for an attacker, but also not the sort of odds you want to ignore as a defender.
Maybe diving catch finally has some value? |
|
|
Kondor
Joined: Apr 04, 2008
|
| Posted:
Nov 05, 2021 - 14:00 |
|
| uzkulak wrote: | Yes, throwers could be the star of the team under the old rules if you built for it. And, honestly, probably could be under the new rules as well.
Probably also worth remembering that 4+ or even 5+ passes aren't that unlikely to succeed with a rr - so it would be wise to still defend properly against that play. Not the best go-to plan for an attacker, but also not the sort of odds you want to ignore as a defender.
Maybe diving catch finally has some value? |
That is just for the throw. The catcher has to catch it too. Plus now not only is there a chance to intercept, there is a chance to interfere.
don't ignore the decoy down the field. Just mark it with a lino. Put less priority on it. |
|
|
Kondor
Joined: Apr 04, 2008
|
| Posted:
Nov 05, 2021 - 14:13 |
|
| maznaz wrote: | | I hate dark elves now. I had literally hundreds of games of them, mostly in B and I loved their versatility. That's gone now, and I don't enjoy them anymore. Entirely due to them having the same passing ability as a regular orc ffs. |
Time to switch and start hiring runners? |
|
|
Waagh
Joined: Apr 13, 2019
|
| Posted:
Nov 05, 2021 - 15:07 |
|
The runner definitely has its place now I think. But yeah the thing I like most about the thrower position is that not everyone can have them. You have to be specialty trained to throw effectively. It's more realistic. |
|
|
Lyracian
Joined: Oct 29, 2015
|
| Posted:
Nov 05, 2021 - 16:46 |
|
| MattDakka wrote: | The DE Assassin (master of martial arts and throwing weapons in the fluff) has PA 5+ like a Troll or Ogre.  |
That is funny. If they had actually been good at Throwing that might have been a reason to try them out... |
|
|
Medon
Joined: Jan 28, 2015
|
| Posted:
Nov 05, 2021 - 18:22 |
|
| Verminardo wrote: | | Sure, Throwers are worth it, but they will never be the star of your team, as intended by the designers. |
Well, are you sure of the intention of the designers? Maybe their intention was to nerf elves and buff dwarves. So, they succeeded in their intention… |
|
|
Kondor
Joined: Apr 04, 2008
|
| Posted:
Nov 06, 2021 - 14:04 |
|
High elf thrower with 6 random passing skills for 160k. Worth it? Probably, and it only takes about 45 SPP. |
|
|
Sp00keh
Joined: Dec 06, 2011
|
| Posted:
Nov 06, 2021 - 15:23 |
|
| Kondor wrote: | | High elf thrower with 6 random passing skills for 160k. Worth it? Probably, and it only takes about 45 SPP. |
Hrrmm, I'm not sure
It's boring but I'd rather have Block Dodge Sidestep Thrower for the same price
6 random P skills on a Thrower who already has 3 of them is reasonably good for 60k though.
I think one issue with your suggestion at 160k, is that the base thrower is probably too expensive at 100k |
Last edited by Sp00keh on %b %06, %2021 - %15:%Nov; edited 1 time in total |
|
MattDakka
Joined: Oct 09, 2007
|
| Posted:
Nov 06, 2021 - 15:23 |
|
Passing is too situational to bother investing so much TV on a Thrower.
I had a DE Runner with Leader, Accurate, Pass, Dodge and fired him because he was not worth the TV.
If you invest skills on a dedicated Thrower he's unprotected (too many skills are required, would be nice if Accurate added +1 to every pass range).
If the Thrower is not protected you are not going to risk him during defence, while if you protect him with Blodge then he's not a dedicated Thrower anymore.
Throwers should either be really good out of the box or the Passing skills should be cheaper and less fragmented (or you should get 2 random Passing skill instead of just 1 random Passing skill).
As the rules are, it doesn't look efficient to build dedicated Throwers with many stacked skills.
Having a Thrower is ok (with multiple rrs Pass is less important than it was), but going overboard by stacking many P skills isn't. |
Last edited by MattDakka on %b %06, %2021 - %16:%Nov; edited 6 times in total |
|
Sp00keh
Joined: Dec 06, 2011
|
| Posted:
Nov 06, 2021 - 15:26 |
|
An elf with 9x Passing skills would mean Passing becomes much stronger, and no longer situational though, I guess that's Koadah's point
It does still mean the rest of the team suck at passing though |
|
|
Sp00keh
Joined: Dec 06, 2011
|
| Posted:
Nov 06, 2021 - 15:29 |
|
If you wanted to actually build a super thrower, you'd probably want +PA for 20k
If you keep it to 160k it means replacing 2x of the random skills |
|
|
maznaz
Joined: Jan 26, 2004
|
| Posted:
Nov 06, 2021 - 15:46 |
|
| Kondor wrote: | | maznaz wrote: | | I hate dark elves now. I had literally hundreds of games of them, mostly in B and I loved their versatility. That's gone now, and I don't enjoy them anymore. Entirely due to them having the same passing ability as a regular orc ffs. |
Time to switch and start hiring runners? |
I use runners. The problem is that for some reason they decided to completely remove an entire aspect of the strategic options available to the team. Apart from the hilarious comparisons (the rat thrower on my underworld teams being exponentially better at it than my dark elves etc) it just makes them way more boring to play. Passing was never so good that you could use it as plan A, but it meant you had a plan B to fall back to. Right now you need weight of numbers to reliably shield the ball, which means in matches where you're dropping players you end up with 0 options. It's boring. |
|
|
MattDakka
Joined: Oct 09, 2007
|
| Posted:
Nov 06, 2021 - 16:49 |
|
I guess that the designers assumed that people would have tried to score as soon as possible (or rather quickly) without stalling. This is not what happens actually, games are still grind-based. 8 turns are enough to safely run the ball without passing it most of times. Reducing the number of turns to 7 would be a small step towards more passing.
As an aside, about DE Runners:
Dump-Off before being blitzed sounds nice on paper and it's a boost, in a way.
In another way, since the blitzing player can forgo to actually blitz the Runner and move to pick up the ball in case of Inaccurate/Wildly Inaccurate/failed catch, it's a nerf.
The rule would be better with this procedure: the blitzing player declares the DE Runner as target and decides the pathing to get to him, then the Dump-Off happens, then the blitzing player moves to get adjacent to the DE Runner (following the pathing). He can pick up the ball only if the ball is lying in the declared pathing.
In order to make the Dump-Off reliable enough to properly use it the Runner requires Pass and Accurate, but if he gets those skills he will be unprotected and it will be risky to deploy him in the defensive drive.
So, the conclusion is that, currently, I have a rookie DE Runner just for those 2-turns scores. |
|
|
Kondor
Joined: Apr 04, 2008
|
| Posted:
Nov 06, 2021 - 20:33 |
|
| Sp00keh wrote: | | Kondor wrote: | | High elf thrower with 6 random passing skills for 160k. Worth it? Probably, and it only takes about 45 SPP. |
Hrrmm, I'm not sure
It's boring but I'd rather have Block Dodge Sidestep Thrower for the same price
6 random P skills on a Thrower who already has 3 of them is reasonably good for 60k though.
I think one issue with your suggestion at 160k, is that the base thrower is probably too expensive at 100k |
That is the same TV but how many SPP to get there? I don't have my book on me so I can't bother to check.
Yes the thrower is unprotected but it can skill up quicker than most other players through vanity passes. If you worry about protecting it, take an extra lineman and let the thrower ride the bench while you play defense.
In the past, the problem with elves was not scoring but defense. Without the ability for most players to pass reliably, I wonder if that is still as accurate. With the nerf to leap, defense is even trickier for elves.
If nothing else, skilled throwers may make the game more interesting. |
|
|
MattDakka
Joined: Oct 09, 2007
|
| Posted:
Nov 06, 2021 - 20:39 |
|
| Kondor wrote: |
That is the same TV but how many SPP to get there? I don't have my book on me so I can't bother to check.
|
To get Block, Dodge, Side Step (3 chosen primary skills) 26 SPPs are required.
About keeping the Thrower safe on bench and replacing him with a Lino.
Sure, I did that with my DE, I kept my Runner with 4 skills on the bench on defence, but the problem is lot of dead TV (80 TV, in my case) sitting on the bench for a marginal utility.
The same TV could be invested on skills useful on defence on players on the pitch or for 1TTD.
A 42 SPPs HE Catcher built for 1TTD (Dodge, Side Step, Sure Feet, Sprint) could be more useful than a 46 SPPs HE Thrower with 6 random skills.
While HE can score quite easily even with a rookie Thrower (or with no Thrower at all), scoring a 1TTD is not as easy without a specialist player. |
|
|
|
|
| |
Gnomes are trash
Search
