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MattDakka



Joined: Oct 09, 2007

Post   Posted: Oct 30, 2021 - 12:55 Reply with quote Back to top

The Box Trophy should bring some racial variety.
Sp00keh



Joined: Dec 06, 2011

Post   Posted: Oct 30, 2021 - 12:58 Reply with quote Back to top

It's not really a trohpy if there's a gamefinder though. I don't think it can run in [C] if we're not using a blind scheduler
koadah



Joined: Mar 30, 2005

Post   Posted: Oct 30, 2021 - 13:05 Reply with quote Back to top

There's not much there over 1400, let alone 1500. This is minor league stuff. Wink

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MattDakka



Joined: Oct 09, 2007

Post   Posted: Oct 30, 2021 - 13:05 Reply with quote Back to top

As far as I know, Trophy games will be played only by Box scheduler.
No GF games allowed.
RedDevilCG



Joined: Jan 09, 2010

Post   Posted: Oct 31, 2021 - 02:07 Reply with quote Back to top

Only Orc, Khemri, Human and Chaos Dwarf showing for me as well.

EDIT: Actually, one coach has 3 different Orc teams on GF, and another coach has two. 5 Orc teams between two coaches?
smeborg



Joined: Jan 04, 2019

Post   Posted: Oct 31, 2021 - 18:34 Reply with quote Back to top

I too have developed a distaste for Niggles.

Main reason is because they make the player unreliable (and the squad, if you accumulate lots of Niggles). Meaning you don't know if they will turn up to the next game.

Also, once an important player has a Niggle, using the Apoth on him is less advisable.

Accordingly, I recycle most (but not all) Niggled players depending on circumstance.

I don't use the Apoth to heal a Niggle unless it is an important player and very late in the game.
Catalyst32



Joined: Jul 14, 2008

Post   Posted: Oct 31, 2021 - 20:20 Reply with quote Back to top

koadah wrote:


Orcs are already second behind Black orcs.
Dwarves are down in 8th behind chaos (7th).
Underworld are popular and winning.



Interesting. Why are Underworld so popular suddenly AND winning?
Could this be due to change in the rules that is escaping me at the moment?
Anybody have a reason OR potential reason?


Black Orcs getting lots of games is probably due to them being 1 of the newest toys. Any other reasons?


I am surprised not to see Old World Alliance being played more for the same reasons Black Orcs are being played more.
Personally, I think OWA is going to be 1 of my favorite rosters in the game (I even bought the minis). But I have not had a chance to play them yet.
Ay thoughts?
Catalyst32



Joined: Jul 14, 2008

Post   Posted: Oct 31, 2021 - 20:53 Reply with quote Back to top

I am going to add notes within your text in all CAPS.
I write this based on the Basher, Baller, Betweener status of teams from various Leagues to demonstrate that these are NOT 100% Bash.
After I label them in All CAPS I might elaborate in regular print size.
Not being ELVES does not make a team a BASHY team.


Sp00keh wrote:
I know this is mostly dead thread now, but I just looked at [C] gamefinder with a 1260 tv Lizard team, and yea it's 100% bash:

1220k Chaos Dwarf
1300k Shambling Undead - BETWEENER Only 1 more ST5 than HUMANS and no ST4. Less ST access than HUMANS (Humans have 5 ST access players, Undead only 4).

1210k Orc
1190k Dwarf
1380k Orc
1380k Chaos Dwarf
1130k Tomb Kings
1130k Necromantic Horror - BETWEENER only 2 ST4 and only 4 ST access teams.

1120k Chaos Dwarf
1110k Orc
1100k Necromantic Horror - BETWEENER explained above

The currently active [C] games are also bash heavy:

1010k Black Orc - BETWEENER Now. of course this is a NEW roster so maybe I am labeling them incorrectly. Reasonable minds may differ.
But they are basically a SLOW Lizardmen Team and Lizards were Betweeners. Any team that is about 1/2 Goblins or Skinls can hardly be in the same category of Orcs, Dorfs, Chaos etc etc etc

1030k Human - BETWEENER They are HUMANS!!! the absolute MIDDLE of the ROAD race between what is a Basker and a Baller. Definitely not a BAsky team.

1430k Lizardmen - BETWEENER As explained above
1490k Shambling Undead - BETWEENER Explained above.

1060k Nurgle

1100k Human - BETWEENER explained above
1120k Shambling Undead - BETWEENER explained above
1180k Necromantic Horror - BETWEENER explained above

1150k Norse - BETWEENER These are just Humans who have lost some AV in exchange for Block, a little Frenzy, a Claw and 2 ST4 AV8 players. They are hardly a Basky sde when compared to any Basky team.

1080k Goblin - WILD CARD Because Goblins and Flings do not fit within the Basher, Betweener, Baller paradigm.


So... I understand there are no Elves or Skaven or Underworld or Amazons... but this list is hardly 100% Bashy especially the HUMANS and NORSE.
smeborg



Joined: Jan 04, 2019

Post   Posted: Oct 31, 2021 - 20:57 Reply with quote Back to top

Catalyst32 wrote:
Interesting. Why are Underworld so popular suddenly AND winning?
Could this be due to change in the rules that is escaping me at the moment?
Anybody have a reason OR potential reason?

My experience of playing against Underworld in BB2020 is that I have been royally thrashed every time (e.g. 2-0, 3-0), to the point that I am reluctant to play against them. Maybe they get a little weaker at higher TV (when other teams get plenty of Tackle). But that is only a guess.

Underworld have received multiple buffs in BB2020, e.g.:

- Gutter Runner (huge - well nigh impossible to stop him scoring).
- Improved Thrower (PA2+). The best AG3 Thrower in the game (as before, but better).
- Ultra-cheap cannon-fodder players (Snotz).
- Swarming (opponent faces 12-14 players).
- Encouragement to foul with gay abandon (ultra-cheap cannon-fodder + Swarming + improved Sneaky Git + cheap Bribes).
- Can start with 14 players, 3 RRs and Apoth at TV100, I think. No other team comes close to that.

This is a very potent combination (especially Swarming IMO), and I expect that Underworld will be exceptionally good in most environments (including many TT tournament environments).

Swarming is a bit odd - it looks like a fine rule for the Snot team, but on an already decent team like Underworld, it looks like it may be OP. Not a complaint, just an observation. Playing against 13-14 players on the pitch is plain hard.
Catalyst32



Joined: Jul 14, 2008

Post   Posted: Oct 31, 2021 - 21:07 Reply with quote Back to top

RedDevilCG wrote:
Only Orc, Khemri, Human and Chaos Dwarf showing for me as well.

EDIT: Actually, one coach has 3 different Orc teams on GF, and another coach has two. 5 Orc teams between two coaches?



Complaining about Orcs all the time? That's SO RACIST!!! (just a joke).

But why is playing Orcs so bad. Did you even LOOK at them? What if they looked like THIS: https://fumbbl.com/p/team?team_id=496156

That is an old ORC team I used to play years ago and they won and tied and lost equally despite their serious limitations.
Surely you wouldn't fear this Orc team that almost got to REDRAFT size in only 9 games (which makes my previous point in another thread as to how ROOKIE the level of teams at the Redraft will likely be in BB2020).

BTW... if games from this long ago can still be spectated you ought to see how they played.
Probably best to see 1 of the WINS (if you only watch 1 game) because the losses were probably the games that the DICE went against me too often and you won't really see the strategy.
Catalyst32



Joined: Jul 14, 2008

Post   Posted: Oct 31, 2021 - 21:14 Reply with quote Back to top

smeborg wrote:
Catalyst32 wrote:
Interesting. Why are Underworld so popular suddenly AND winning?
Could this be due to change in the rules that is escaping me at the moment?
Anybody have a reason OR potential reason?

My experience of playing against Underworld in BB2020 is that I have been royally thrashed every time (e.g. 2-0, 3-0), to the point that I am reluctant to play against them. Maybe they get a little weaker at higher TV (when other teams get plenty of Tackle). But that is only a guess.

Underworld have received multiple buffs in BB2020, e.g.:

- Gutter Runner (huge - well nigh impossible to stop him scoring).
- Improved Thrower (PA2+). The best AG3 Thrower in the game (as before, but better).
- Ultra-cheap cannon-fodder players (Snotz).
- Swarming (opponent faces 12-14 players).
- Encouragement to foul with gay abandon (ultra-cheap cannon-fodder + Swarming + improved Sneaky Git + cheap Bribes).
- Can start with 14 players, 3 RRs and Apoth at TV100, I think. No other team comes close to that.

This is a very potent combination (especially Swarming IMO), and I expect that Underworld will be exceptionally good in most environments (including many TT tournament environments).

Swarming is a bit odd - it looks like a fine rule for the Snot team, but on an already decent team like Underworld, it looks like it may be OP. Not a complaint, just an observation. Playing against 13-14 players on the pitch is plain hard.



OK that does explain it then.
I should have remembered the Gutter Runner. His addition is obviously a Buff.

But I did not know about the great PA for the Thrower I haven't memorized the new Player Stats yet.

And I forgot about the Snots and Swarming. I guess if nothing else these are extra Assists and Tackle Zones on the Pitch AND players you can FOUL with and who cares if they get sent off.
A 1 for 1 exchange of a ST3 or ST4 players for a Snotling is a WIN. And Sneaky Git can keep him around to Foul again!

I guess I need to have a 2nd look at Underworld.
smeborg



Joined: Jan 04, 2019

Post   Posted: Nov 01, 2021 - 11:35 Reply with quote Back to top

Same happened again just now in Competitive. Opponents available were:

Dwarfs (2)
Orcs (2)
Underworld
Necro
'Zon
Undead
Black Orc
CD

Sigh.
Sp00keh



Joined: Dec 06, 2011

Post   Posted: Nov 01, 2021 - 11:59 Reply with quote Back to top

Yea, very bash heavy.

What's funny is that sometimes I see entirely bash in the gamefinder, and mostly Legends and Super
Stars
And then go look at the current in progress games, and it's got a much broader mix of team styles and coach rankings

Which means the Emerging Stars queing with Elves get games easily
And the Legends queing with Orcs get ignored in gamefinder and they have to sit waiting for ages without getting games

So the universal picking means the Gamefinder is actually a skewed selection, it's not representative of games played
Sp00keh



Joined: Dec 06, 2011

Post   Posted: Nov 01, 2021 - 12:04 Reply with quote Back to top

smeborg wrote:
Can start with 14 players, 3 RRs and Apoth at TV100, I think. No other team comes close to that.


They're underpriced
They're strong at low TV because they won't face enough Tackle
They can take a full squad of 16 including every positional, 3 RR, and the Apo:

1 x Underworld Troll
1 x Underworld Blitzer
1 x Underworld Gutter Runner
1 x Underworld Thrower
3 x Underworld Clanrats
3 x Underworld Goblin Linemen
6 x Underworld Snotlings
3 x Re-rolls
1 x Apothecary

Total 995k

Although it's possibly better to drop 1 snot for +2 Fans
MattDakka



Joined: Oct 09, 2007

Post   Posted: Nov 01, 2021 - 12:17 Reply with quote Back to top

Sp00keh wrote:

They're strong at low TV because they won't face enough Tackle


With the Box Dwarfs and Chorfs should be common, so, they could face enough Tackle even at low TV.
With the GF avoiding Tackle spam is easier.
The same goes for bash teams.
Currently bash teams don't face other bash teams if they can avoid it, with the Box they would more often.
If two bash teams clash they suffer some injuries, so when you face them they could be a bit weaker due to MNG players.
Also, there is no Season Redraft and bash teams tend to stack more damage skills, because they suffer less injuries than hybrid and agile teams.

We need the Box and the Box Trophy asap.
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