koadah
Joined: Mar 30, 2005
|
 Posted:
Jan 10, 2022 - 01:45 |
 
|
| JackassRampant wrote: | | koadah wrote: | The Fumbbl Majors used to be a big deal and create quite a buzz.
They may still be big, but not in the same way. Previously it was big teams and big coaches. Now it will be more about the coaches. Which will suit some people. |
Well, "big" just got relative. A lot of teams will come out of their second season well over 1600k, with lots of good players: 30 games is a long time to skill up now that skills are cheaper (26 points to get 3 primary skills, 92 to get 6: for a hitter or baller, getting to legend in 30 games isn't much of a stretch), and now you can guarantee stats or doubles on the players who want them (heck, Goblins get random G skills now faster than they used to get skill rolls). A deep tournament run, and you won't have to make any serious cuts until 35-40 games into your development.
Ancient players with hundreds upon hundreds (or even thousands) of SPP are a thing of the past, maybe, but big teams in majors will still be big, just a bit smaller than they used to be. |
But you still have to make the cut an build back up for the next one. That is going to kill it for some people.
I wonder if in some ways it favours people who can play a lot of games even more than the old system did. |
_________________
O[L]C 2016 Swiss! - April ---- All Star Bowl - Teams of Stars - 5 more teams needed |
|
JackassRampant
Joined: Feb 26, 2011
|
| Posted:
Jan 10, 2022 - 02:07 |
|
I've got a bunch of teams who will all be able to take all or nearly all of their players into their second season. Painful cuts don't come until the season after that. |
_________________
Lude enixe, obliviscatur timor. |
|
koadah
Joined: Mar 30, 2005
|
| Posted:
Jan 10, 2022 - 02:34 |
|
|
stej
Joined: Jan 05, 2009
|
| Posted:
Jan 10, 2022 - 08:57 |
|
I think a lot of this comes down to what races you like to play. If you like ones with good starting skills, nothing really changes. If you like ones that start poor but get a lot stronger, then a lot of your "fun" has been somewhat arbitrarily sucked from the game |
|
|
MrCushtie
Joined: Aug 10, 2018
|
| Posted:
Jan 10, 2022 - 09:33 |
|
| stej wrote: | | I think a lot of this comes down to what races you like to play. If you like ones with good starting skills, nothing really changes. If you like ones that start poor but get a lot stronger, then a lot of your "fun" has been somewhat arbitrarily sucked from the game |
I like Nurgle. Nurgle are pretty horrible at 1000 TV. My first team wasn't much fun for 5 or 6 matches, then felt playable. At 15 matches, it's in a position where it's still going to be fun after rebuy. But then one person's idea of fun is different to another's; I never really enjoyed going up against 2000+ teams in box, even when I had teams above 2000 TV myself, so the cost/benefit of the new rules is in my favour. |
_________________
 |
|
koadah
Joined: Mar 30, 2005
|
| Posted:
Jan 10, 2022 - 09:56 |
|
|
JackassRampant
Joined: Feb 26, 2011
|
| Posted:
Jan 10, 2022 - 15:45 |
|
IDK, I'm having fun playing on the field as I find it, enjoying the challenge of socking away SPP in all the right places in 15 games or less, building for the redraft. It's not any better or worse, just different. |
_________________
Lude enixe, obliviscatur timor. |
|
Garion26
Joined: Nov 28, 2021
|
| Posted:
Jan 10, 2022 - 20:00 |
|
| MattDakka wrote: | [
Skills are cheaper but MVP is totally random and worth 4 SPPs instead of 5, so arguably the old system was faster if you wanted to skill up a specific player or 2 up to 3 skills.
It's true that now skills require fewer SPPs, but it's a bit harder to get them on the positional players you want.
Moreover, you could have a stat+ (or a chosen double) with 6 SPPs and a lucky skill up roll, with the current system is impossible. Even if you can store SPPs to surely get a stat+ roll (and you need at least 18 SPPs) the most likely stats are +AV, +MA, +PA (13 results on 16).
|
That feels like an issue with BB Second Season rules rather then something unique to redrafting or not.
I think there's some value in cycling (particularly in context of very long lived teams with 50+ games) positionals looking to get the stat up you want and if you don't you can take a chosen secondary you like. For elf teams this probably means guard, though Agility 1+ still has some real value for crazy elf plays and nerves of steel has some utility on a catcher. Strength is expensive in a TV based matchmaker environment but if building a superstar I suppose it makes sense (I'm playing Elf union right now and strongly considering after getting Blodge going for a stat up on a blitzer - guard at the worst on blodgestepper.)
With more gold income in Second Season and niggles raising the risk of permanent injury I think players are going to fall off the roster one way or another. |
|
|
JackassRampant
Joined: Feb 26, 2011
|
| Posted:
Jan 10, 2022 - 20:57 |
|
@Matt, I might note that this favors relatively uniform teams with good skill access, like some of the ones that everybody insists got pooped on, such as Chaos Chosen. They honestly don't care if they never get a stat on anybody but their primary carrier. Just skill up at 6, 14, 26, 42, 62, and 92. Block is an MVP and a Cas away, and from that point he starts accelerating and continues doing so until he's a monster ... with quite manageable agent fees at 15 games + tourney every season, thanks. |
_________________
Lude enixe, obliviscatur timor. |
|
paradocks
Joined: Jun 14, 2004
|
| Posted:
Jan 30, 2022 - 16:59 |
|
The simple solution that would work for me would be; Box has the 15 game season thing and Ranked stays with no seasons. This way people could have the most freedom to keep playing how they like |
|
|
Balle2000
Joined: Sep 25, 2008
|
| Posted:
Jan 30, 2022 - 22:04 |
|
The division is still in alpha. Until the scheduler with seasons is in place, it's not competitive. It's hard to gauge anything before then. |
|
|
JackassRampant
Joined: Feb 26, 2011
|
| Posted:
Jan 31, 2022 - 08:59 |
|
To me, it actually makes building more attractive. Sure, I can't keep the ancient players around forever, but I can build up a good stable, and I can drag along lucky players who excel in SPP or get good randoms for a couple seasons. Eventually you have to replace a player because he gets too expensive to retain over multiple seasons, but good players will get 50 games, and now that Legend is only 92 SPP away at chosen primaries (+6 per secondary, +12 per stat), that's a long time.
Used to be the only thinking you had to do between games was skilling players and replacing casualties. Now you've got this constant management game going on behind the scenes, as you try to make sure you've got a team not just for now, but for next season, and one that you can build something out of for the season after that. I like it. And I'm totally one of those coaches with a classic team that's gonna have to be retired. |
_________________
Lude enixe, obliviscatur timor. |
|
Mnemon
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
|
| Posted:
Jan 31, 2022 - 09:08 |
|
I really just think the system is half thought through. There are simply teams that need long-term development to shine. And others much more suited to constant renewal. So either the teams need to be re-designed that pretty much everything is somewhat decent out of the box - or seasons need to be longer. |
|
|
MattDakka
Joined: Oct 09, 2007
|
| Posted:
Jan 31, 2022 - 12:13 |
|
I'm not against the idea of a Re-Draft, but as Mnemon said, some teams (generally strong starting tier 1) are well suited to cycling players (the random MVP is ok too for them, because no matter where it ends, for example Dwarfs), while the teams requiring some time to get the core skills (especially on positional players) to be on an even ground with the strong starting ones are at a disadvantage with the Re-Draft.
So, either all the rosters should be re-designed considering the Season Re-Draft rule (weakening a bit the strong starting tier 1 and improving a bit the weaker tier 2 and 3) or it would be better just to use a hard TV cap (with some data it could possible to know the average TV where the win rate of all races are closer), so a greater range of races could be decently played.
There is no need to make tier 2 and tier 3 teams even more frustrating to play than they already are.
I will make an example based on my own experience:
I'm playing Elven Union and I'm struggling to get 3 Blodgers because there is no MVP nomination and most MVPs end on linemen (i.e. wasted SPPs), getting a bench is hard (generally it lasts 1 game), and the random skills on linemen are not helping either (as an experiment, I'm taking random skills on them, fishing for Block, Wrestle, Kick, Dirty Player).
No hope of getting a chosen Secondary skill/random stat boost on a positional at 6 SPPs, unlike in BB2016. Secondary skills and stat boosts are really important for Elves.
With Dwarfs skilling up is a walk in the park.
High AV means fewer Casualties suffered (and less SPPs wasted), Blockle means reliability and CAS-generation (and SPPs earning), the Runner has +MA guaranteed at 18 SPPs, random MVP means easy skilling (because every Dwarf but the Runner has S access and doesn't have to slow down the build taking Block/Wrestle and Tackle, also, the SPPs are not wasted on linemen with poor skill access).
In other words, I feel a bigger gap between BB2020 tier 2 and tier 1 teams compared to BB2016.
On top of that, when you manage to skill up an Elf, with the injuries leaning towards SI/Dead it's quite easy he will be crippled and you have to start the process again. As if this weren't enough, assuming your players survive, you have to deal with the Season Re-Draft.
I'm not complaining, I'm not forced to play Elves, just I wonder if encouraging playing bash and bashy hybrid teams is good for the variety and fun of the match-ups. |
Last edited by MattDakka on %b %02, %2022 - %11:%Feb; edited 1 time in total |
|
Garion26
Joined: Nov 28, 2021
|
| Posted:
Jan 31, 2022 - 12:47 |
|
A look at early FuMBBL results was here.
https://bloodbowlstrategies.com/en/relative-strength-of-teams/
For what it’s worth I am running EU as well and going random on linemen. I think random skills make sense on low cost linemen whom you can cycle out (or the game cycles them for you). They tend to pick up the desperation scores that I would rather get on positionals. I think after blodge on positionals I may reasonably save SPP up for the stat roll and just take guard if I don’t get something I need.
Both of these are favored for me because competitive is a TV matched environment. Random is significantly cheaper in terms of TV. |
|
|
|
|
| |
All Star Bowl!
Search
